The Drama

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man, just kind of the drama, really looking forward to this conversation with you, and a conversation I wish I could have had was with. [SPEAKER_00]: The huge group of teenage girls in my theater who clearly came for a light, Emily Henry-style rom-com was in Dan and Robert Pattison, and got something else.

[SPEAKER_00]: I loved it, I'll see it again. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, do you think that the wedding photographer will still use their photos for her, um, portfolio? [SPEAKER_01]: Because they are beautiful couple.

[SPEAKER_02]: Hello, and welcome to medium liter at the podcast where two longtime best friends tried to sharpen our media literacy skills by having a long discussion about a new movie out in theaters every week. [SPEAKER_02]: We are talking about the drama this week and a lot of spoilers. [SPEAKER_02]: Watch out for that if you haven't seen it and you care about that and I'm just a reminder if you're listening You can also find the full video episode on YouTube. [SPEAKER_02]: So now on to the conversation Okay, here we are [SPEAKER_02]: And boy, it was it, it was the drama, the reason for the season.

[SPEAKER_02]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: And right out the gate, I need to know, we haven't talked. [SPEAKER_00]: We haven't even texted about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you like this movie? [SPEAKER_00]: I did like it. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you like it? [SPEAKER_00]: I liked it a lot. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I really, I don't know how much like a... [SPEAKER_02]: TBD on like how much rewatchability it has for me, but I did like it a lot. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was really good. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it looked really good.

[SPEAKER_02]: Interesting premise. [SPEAKER_02]: Good writing. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, editing was cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that a thing was really interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Lots of really [SPEAKER_00]: strange weird unsettling choices in the visuals, we we're going to get into the twist, eventually, but for now let's hover in first of all. [SPEAKER_00]: This fucking apartment he lives in. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm dying day one on those stairs, but I did love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, spiral space, metal spiral staircase staircase inside the house.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's insane. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when she's drunk climbing those stairs, I'm like, oh boy. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, boy. [SPEAKER_02]: This movie could end right now with one little wrong stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But yes, I find that I'm going to be googling like the various lamps he had in his house. [SPEAKER_00]: And I mean, just like they had like the lamp budget alone was probably like $70,000. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I also, I mean, like, it makes sense that, like, he's like curator at a museum, I imagine that comes with a decent paycheck and also like the fact that this, the fact that it wasn't in New York, not the Boston's cheaper, whatever, but it's like certainly not as expensive as New York.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or it's different expensive. [SPEAKER_00]: The expensive things are different or something. [SPEAKER_00]: I actually wouldn't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I've only, I've been to Boston once. [SPEAKER_00]: And I don't remember anything about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, Boston. [SPEAKER_02]: But I feel like people were like, how did it? [SPEAKER_02]: How did they afford this apartment? [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, well, he has a good job. [SPEAKER_02]: It seems like she has a good job.

[SPEAKER_00]: And you know what I'm saying? [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, we learned some details about his job in this story. [SPEAKER_00]: But we don't really learn anything about her job. [SPEAKER_00]: She works at a place that fires contractors sometimes. [SPEAKER_02]: you know, intense but chill office environment. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it seems like it had a big library or something in front of it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, we're like a bunch of files. [SPEAKER_00]: I sort of appreciated, I think this is a criticism I've seen, lobbed at this movie, but um, [SPEAKER_00]: that I didn't need to learn that much about the details of their life, or them, as people outside of what is coming up in the situation that this movie is presenting, because I felt like everything for me, everything was very clear about these people, like all I needed to understand was like their connection, their love story, [SPEAKER_00]: And then how they feel about the situation that has devolved before our lives.

[SPEAKER_02]: I feel like this movie was a lot of like show don't tell, where there's a lot of things that aren't spelled out, but like you can sort of put together just from, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: It's the opposite of Netflix movies where they have to like explain everything that's happening in a scene three times because they like expect everyone to be on their phones. [SPEAKER_02]: This it's like there are so many things you would miss if you were. [SPEAKER_02]: on your phone. [SPEAKER_02]: I also, I do think this is, it's very appropriate that we're doing this because I think in many ways this movie is sort of a media literacy test.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just based on how many people I've seen thinking like, [SPEAKER_02]: the morning after the reveal when she's like picturing, um, Mike and Charlie, like talking. [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, I think you should pack up moving. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll beat her up. [SPEAKER_02]: How many people thought that was like a thing that actually happened? [SPEAKER_00]: Wait, people thought I haven't seen that yet. [SPEAKER_00]: People believed that. [SPEAKER_00]: It seemed to be, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, my God, it's a rump.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a rump. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a rump. [SPEAKER_01]: been right out the gate. [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of like interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Wow. [SPEAKER_02]: So what did you think was happening? [SPEAKER_02]: Like the whole time if you thought all of those not real. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like real. [SPEAKER_00]: That's really interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because also there's like flashes to like everyone at the wedding being dead like that are like, you know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a ton of stuff that's like, clearly not happening. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I just, right before we started recording, I was like, we shouldn't reveal the thing too early so that we can clip. [SPEAKER_00]: But now I'm finding that I don't know how to talk about this without just diving into the reveal. [SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty much impossible.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, maybe I retract that suggestion for, for our podcast, just a little behind the scenes. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, though I will, I will sound the alarm right now, like, [SPEAKER_00]: Truly, if you haven't seen this movie, but you plan on seeing this movie, I'd like to know what you think about this, but I don't think if you know what the twist is, I don't know that it works. [SPEAKER_02]: The only reason I can't agree is because I did know what the twist was. [SPEAKER_02]: Did you? [SPEAKER_02]: I was like, how the hell?

[SPEAKER_02]: It's when the trailer first came out. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it was like, oh, there's this twist and and I people on Twitter were like a bunch of people knew the twist because like of a film that's a book about. [SPEAKER_02]: Not even it was either like something about like the whole script was on [SPEAKER_02]: the blacklist or, or even read it or something, but it was online and some capacity at some point before it was made. [SPEAKER_02]: And so a bunch of people kept like referencing like the twist is so weird, you know, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, duh, or people were like, just learn the twist.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, duh, duh, and so it's like, I did it to myself. [SPEAKER_02]: I like had to know. [SPEAKER_02]: And that was like many months ago. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, wow. [SPEAKER_02]: And then, but it's like obviously you're not going to forget that. [SPEAKER_02]: So I did know going in. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, that's really funny. [SPEAKER_00]: Alex knew Alex had found out the morning we were seeing the movie because he's found out on Reddit and he said that it was because euphoria fans don't like Zendaya.

[SPEAKER_00]: which is weird because she's the main character. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's some weird. [SPEAKER_00]: But like that, euphoria fans are mad. [SPEAKER_00]: I listen, also I don't know that his grasp of what the dynamics of that situation were was like totally sound. [SPEAKER_00]: But it was something about you like Zenday. [SPEAKER_00]: I maybe said something about Sam Levinson, who's the euphoria showrunner, who's like a huge piece of shit. [SPEAKER_00]: and that they are mad at her for that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So they are like trying to ruin the movie or something. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was like he just like saw it on Reddit and was like, oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: That is the same that Sam Levinson has shooters. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not intended, but I, I know everything's like, wait, but like, who will I? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god, if somebody is like a Sam 11th in Stan, they need to re-examine every single thing about their life up to this point.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, and I've enjoyed you for you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I watch them, but, but I, you know, it's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I rewatched his movie that Zendia's in that came out on Netflix that was Malcolm and Marie last night. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I was like, I want to see more Zendia being intense, having intensity generally. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I just was watching that movie thinking, Sam Levinson needs to think his lucky fucking stars, that Zendaya has lended her talent to his stupid words.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it's... [SPEAKER_00]: He is what elevates everything that he makes, and like the other cast and euphoria obviously also does and they've all become like catastrophically So she is just such a movie star in a way that light so talented. [SPEAKER_02]: We don't really have any more [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like she's so she's talented. [SPEAKER_00]: She's so beautiful like she's she's just like she's she's a star He knows thinking when I was watching this movie and then like it's the hangover scene She got drunk the night before and then she's like hungover and she's kind of like a hot mess And I was like man, she is really good at playing an absolute hot mess [SPEAKER_00]: which is really weird because in the scenes where she's done up and like, this is the most graceful woman that's ever lived.

[SPEAKER_04]: Totally. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she glides.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it's really impressive that she can do both in the same story. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, it like plays to her advantage also that she in interviews appears to be like a huge door. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and so she that helps her kind of like play all these all all she can be all angles over a type of person. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is funny because I feel like in the way she dresses in real life too is, you know, she can be the most glamorous woman you've ever seen. [SPEAKER_02]: But then when she, she also loves like oversized stuff and big pants, big shirt.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so then when she's playing a character where it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: them being a supermodel isn't part of the plot, let me give you a word or this, they just dress or like a carpenter. [SPEAKER_00]: And she still looks so cool all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, it's like, it's incredible just walking around. [SPEAKER_02]: You'd be like, oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, Robert Pattinson too, it's like, he, he looks like an old fashioned movie star. [SPEAKER_00]: He has the like jawline.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's just so funny that he is also kind of an insane person. [SPEAKER_00]: Every time. [SPEAKER_00]: He was probably so pissed he had to just use his normal voice for this kind of a funny little accent Now in your screening Was anybody did anybody walk out is my first question when the fest is revealed okay I've have friends tell me that some of their screenings like people got up and left. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh really And I will say in my screening [SPEAKER_00]: We were the only people laughing like I was with Alex and a friend and we were laughing the whole movie because it's quite funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I, I would honestly call this comedy like more than anything. [SPEAKER_02]: It's sort of like a dark comedy of manners. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, yes, exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think you were dead on with the comparison to you hurt my feelings in terms of like, I couldn't stop thinking about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like just [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, this is just like the dark, the really dark version of that, but it's like a couple where one thing is said one thing is learned about the other person and it like causes absolute chaos and the relationship and and the whole thing is just like talking in rooms and it's like the couple talking him talking to someone else about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You are mine to be so much. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: This second, you said that. [SPEAKER_00]: It hadn't occurred to me organically. [SPEAKER_00]: It said that I was like, oh my god.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, people talking in rooms is also just one of my favorite genres. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when it's good. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, when it's good, it's, it's great. [SPEAKER_02]: Because yeah, I'm like, you heard my feelings is the ultimate, [SPEAKER_02]: And then this is just the reddit version of that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, so I was in my screening. [SPEAKER_00]: We were the only ones laughing. [SPEAKER_00]: There was also a huge, I went to a movie theater in like a really, really wealthy suburb. [SPEAKER_00]: nearby that only for the most part every time I've gone to this movie theater it's like mostly kids movies playing because that's like who lives in that area as our families. [SPEAKER_00]: So, first of all, we were the only people in our theater when the movie started. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, wow, okay, that's weird.

[SPEAKER_00]: We're five p.m. like, that's wild. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought this would be like a busy or show time, opening weekend. [SPEAKER_00]: And then genuinely the theater was almost full, by like 15 minutes into the movie. [SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you people? [SPEAKER_00]: That's insane. [SPEAKER_00]: 15 minutes late. [SPEAKER_00]: into the movie so they missed the trailers too. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like so you showed up for this movie 45 minutes after it's the show time.

[SPEAKER_00]: What's the point? [SPEAKER_00]: So already insane and people do that a lot around here. [SPEAKER_00]: I've noticed like, you know, live in a Chicago suburb so it's like this isn't the most cinephile part of town. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think, but but like yeah, the AMC at any theater I go to like [SPEAKER_00]: People just show up when the movie's already been going for like five or two minutes. [SPEAKER_02]: Crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: I am. [SPEAKER_00]: We had a massive group of teen girls who clearly went because they thought it was a rom-com.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it was. [SPEAKER_02]: It's romantic and it's a comedy. [SPEAKER_00]: But they were teens, like 15 girls with Stanley Cups, you know, wearing the same identical outfits, like Lou Lulemon, like yoga pants and big sweatshirts. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just like, they looked identical. [SPEAKER_00]: They had their big pink Stanley Cups, and they had their little snacks, and they were like, fuming. [SPEAKER_00]: Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

[SPEAKER_00]: So these things would happen in this movie that we're like, so shocking what you would be laughing so hard. [SPEAKER_00]: It would just be like phone shattering silence and us laughing.

[SPEAKER_02]: I saw it at the Vista and with some friends. [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like, [SPEAKER_02]: packed to the fucking gills like crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like it's it's probably because like they're two true movie stars. [SPEAKER_02]: The marketing was good. [SPEAKER_02]: What like this movie is like getting people out. [SPEAKER_02]: That's also the theater, but it was funny because it was like there were [SPEAKER_02]: Speaking of a big group there was like a group behind they took a whole row and then so then spilled out into next to me like four of them It's like Not who you would expect at the vista.

[SPEAKER_02]: I they were American, but I don't they looked when I looked I was like oh a bunch of bunch of Russians [SPEAKER_02]: They just kind of had that vibe. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's a deal. [SPEAKER_02]: It's true. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, and a lot of like, you know, that like pixel camo switcher. [SPEAKER_02]: And then like a buzz cut with like a backwards pixel camo flat brim and lots of chains. [SPEAKER_02]: And then the girls had like the really like that dyed color red hair. [SPEAKER_02]: And like the, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: But they were like, they were kind of annoying, like, the whole theater was re-altations. [SPEAKER_02]: How much can you believe it?

[SPEAKER_02]: Get out. [SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not crazy. [SPEAKER_02]: Can you believe that they weren't like a perfect audience, a group of 20 mal Russians that somehow were in Russian, despite all the evidence and culturally Russian?

[SPEAKER_02]: But it's like the whole theater was, um... [SPEAKER_02]: Very reactive, which was fun, but they were like reactive and kind of like the ones next to me in kind of an annoying way and like I'm gonna be so honest. [SPEAKER_02]: I kept The couple next to me that was like part of the group. [SPEAKER_02]: They so gave the vibe of like couple where like he would start fingering her during the movie [SPEAKER_02]: That I kept kind of just like glancing over like ready to be like pissed and to make sure you're staying out Because she was also like you know doing that thing.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like knees up feet on the seat his Apple watch is just fucking blaring bright as hell arm around her and it's like, you know, look at the cut down apple

[SPEAKER_02]: We were in church, but it was fun because people were like really, really reactive. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that sounds so fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Which I mean, if that's going to happen anywhere, it would be at the this stuff in Los Angeles. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, sort of, sort of fish in a barrel for kind of any thinking movie. [SPEAKER_02]: And such like a height like thinking movie. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I really felt like the roll out for this movie was like really elegantly done. [SPEAKER_00]: Like once once I've learned the twist, I'm like Okay pretty impressively done like it looked interesting enough and all the trailers I only ever once [SPEAKER_00]: saw a trailer that included the dinner conversation where they say the worst, you know, they go around doing the worst thing they've ever done.

[SPEAKER_00]: Only once, all the other trailers were just sort of like, you know, the photo session and then the intercut like chaos clips. [SPEAKER_02]: And then with the marketing, they went really all in on like the wedding aspects. [SPEAKER_00]: Dude, I don't know what it is, but when a brand or any kind of thing, any sort of corporate entity does a wedding chapel. [SPEAKER_00]: I love it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's so fun. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's geared towards you who got married into Vegas Wedding Jaffel.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I think the other one I thought of right away, which is like not related in elegance. [SPEAKER_00]: Like obviously in A24 wedding chapel thing where you're getting married by Zindaya. [SPEAKER_00]: For the Super Bowl, I think when it was in Vegas, and I remember seeing pictures of it being like, this is so cute! [SPEAKER_02]: If you weren't married already, and it was an option, would you have gone married by Zendaya?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely, of course. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, like, pretty, of course, my queen. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if I would have traveled for it specifically. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I would definitely do any of these marketing wedding. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I would do that. [SPEAKER_00]: I think you could do that if you already married. [SPEAKER_00]: You can like renew vows or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: You don't have to do the paperwork.

[SPEAKER_00]: They are not gonna fall. [SPEAKER_00]: They just need people to participate. [SPEAKER_02]: And they are just fun or little lawyer glasses and it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: It looks like you're married already, get out of here.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I, yeah, it's like I think I do draw the line at like traveling for it. [SPEAKER_00]: This would be, it would, I wonder if it's. [SPEAKER_00]: As this is coming out of my mouth, I'm like editing myself because I know this would probably be impossible because of Texas laws. [SPEAKER_00]: But I don't know why South by Southwest. [SPEAKER_00]: No brand has done this at South by Southwest. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's a really fun idea, totally. [SPEAKER_02]: It's, I feel like it always gets press, it's cute.

[SPEAKER_00]: People are like happy, and there's wedding movies all the time. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not, it's totally, it's like kind of an obvious move. [SPEAKER_02]: I admittedly, there was a part of me that would have been a little happy if this movie didn't do well because a guy

[SPEAKER_02]: And did it trouble you to enjoy the movie a little bit because I know he's probably so happy I know he's probably feeling real good and I don't want that Yeah, it's hard. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want this for these people. [SPEAKER_02]: But you know happy for everyone all Happy for everyone. [SPEAKER_00]: Happy for everyone. [SPEAKER_02]: Happy for everyone. [SPEAKER_02]: I have [SPEAKER_00]: um okay can i say who who did the most amazing performance on earth in this movie has to be a lot of him i agree because i fucking hated her from the first single she was so [SPEAKER_02]: Good in it like that.

[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I mean, sure it was just a bread of bread. [SPEAKER_02]: She had a wretched woman, but in such a specific way. [SPEAKER_02]: And she just made her so awful. [SPEAKER_00]: He was wretched in an extremely natural way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I mean, so at first, I was like, oh, maybe this is like a little over the top, when the first thing out of her fucking mouth in the whole movie is her being like, well, you shouldn't say something that makes you sad because you're really ugly when you cry.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, oh, oh. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like excuse me the slady hates this other lady got so is at that point. [SPEAKER_02]: You're not sure What their relationship is yeah, you don't know that they're they're not really best friends It's the husbands like yeah, you're like is this is this one of [SPEAKER_02]: her best but it kind of is one of her best friends because she was she made her her made of honor yeah and she just yes yes and she just didn't have that many friends yeah and I don't think that's that weird happens to all of us I wish that they did like delved into just that one little thing a little bit more yeah then they're not having friends thing because she she seems very charming and fun [SPEAKER_00]: And not reserves, not reserved, reading books, reading books in public places, you know, she's out, she's available to be interactive with.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, I would have liked to know, a little bit more about that. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there are obviously things. [SPEAKER_00]: that we could have been a little more interested in the characters, back stories outside of the one event, but all in all, like, [SPEAKER_00]: It was interesting that I felt like I understood immediately, like as not immediately, but as the movie was going on, I felt like I understood very quickly the dynamic between Alana Ham's Rachel character and her husband, Mike, and Charlie and Emma.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I immediately was like, yeah, okay, she was the only girl in this group for a long time. [SPEAKER_00]: time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And then, and then, I mean, and what do you do? [SPEAKER_00]: If you're the only girl in a group, not that I'm empathizing with Rachel, I would never. [SPEAKER_00]: But I, I'm going to walk in her shoes for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: you are the only girl in the group between your husband and his best friend. [SPEAKER_00]: And then suddenly, Zentaya gets into a situation.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't feel the most secure. [SPEAKER_02]: No, that's it's like she's so much of her nastiness. [SPEAKER_02]: Like comes so clearly from being just so jealous and wanting to like take her down like a bunch of [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, it also so in so in the scene where we get the reveal And we're inching inching close to our closer to it every time we bring it up To saying what it is on this podcast, but [SPEAKER_00]: Before they even get to the game or like as they're starting to get to the game, I can't remember the lines she says, but I remember my immediate reaction to her and how she was embodying that character was like, uh, like two familiar and pushy in a way that I didn't like really domineering.

[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't like it at all. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and like you know that she's the type of woman who would like consider herself like yeah, I'm just kind of a ballbuster, but you know, I'm a good person ever knows I'm like actually really nice and it's like no you're just absolutely bitch and then as we go through the scene where they do reveal that she [SPEAKER_00]: We're gonna spoil now, fully. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, for people who haven't seen it, I know I have one friend who listens to the show who told me she loves spoilers specifically, so this will be her favorite part.

[SPEAKER_00]: But so when she revealed, so they play this game, where they're like, let's do the words, let's say the worst thing we've ever done. [SPEAKER_00]: We did this before we got married and it was great. [SPEAKER_02]: Which also, Rachel starts, she fully starts this. [SPEAKER_00]: And starts this. [SPEAKER_02]: By bringing up like, oh, the dog story. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, you don't, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's like the way that every single thing that happens at this movie is her fault. [SPEAKER_02]: It is crazy, like it is all 100% her fault.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And she pushes to make everything worse every single step of the way. [SPEAKER_02]: No, totally. [SPEAKER_02]: She's like the engine that is like leading to this disaster, the whole time. [SPEAKER_00]: While acting like the victim of something.

[SPEAKER_00]: But when they play the game, I really do appreciate that her story is her actually doing something horrific to someone. [SPEAKER_02]: And she seems to like legitimately not know that. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, like insane, insane juxtaposition. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and then also with like a, like with the dog thing, she almost is selling it like it's worse than it ends up being, you know, whenever Robert writes it like, did you fuck a dog and he's like, no, you know, whatever. [SPEAKER_02]: And then hers, [SPEAKER_02]: He he also kind of I think it's her husband right who says like she locked again in a closet, which it's like yeah Okay, that doesn't sound so bad and then she tells and you're like that's psychotic [SPEAKER_00]: And so, yes, the dog thing is that a dog is biting at him and his girlfriend and he pushes, he holds the girlfriend in front so the dog bites the girlfriend because he's scared.

[SPEAKER_00]: Listen, we've all been there. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, not great, but you know, it's not. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's also just like kind of like dumb instincts and not really like something pathological, which everyone else then does says something that like reveals more about their true identity. [SPEAKER_00]: A lot of Hayme reveals that she [SPEAKER_00]: had let the quote slow kid next door take her to an abandoned RV that he found and she thought it was gross and pushed him in the closet and locked him in there left him there didn't tell anybody [SPEAKER_00]: And his parents came asking if they had seen the boy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And she said, no, they left him there overnight. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she didn't like it. [SPEAKER_02]: At least like 24 hours. [SPEAKER_02]: And then they're like, what happened to him? [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, oh, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: Like she didn't even care enough. [SPEAKER_02]: to horrible. [SPEAKER_02]: Know what happened to him. [SPEAKER_02]: So that's objectively awful. [SPEAKER_00]: And she doesn't seem apologetic about it. [SPEAKER_00]: She thinks it's funny still.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And she's just like, oh, and then when they're like, oh, that's kind of bad. [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, it was just like in the moment. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, but it wasn't in the moment. [SPEAKER_02]: Because then you just let him stay in there knowing he was in there for 24 hours. [SPEAKER_02]: As lies do his parents looking for him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So that's evil.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that's an action. [SPEAKER_00]: Then Robert Pattinson says that he, well, first well, he doesn't really ever say anything fully. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like, oh, I kind of cyberbullied someone until they had to move away. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which I don't even know what to think of that admission because he says he's 15. [SPEAKER_00]: He's cyberbullies someone so much that their family moved away. [SPEAKER_00]: But at 15, I feel like you don't, you don't know why a family moved away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like I don't think you understand what that is. [SPEAKER_02]: We're like, okay, like that's not as bad as like a Lana Himes. [SPEAKER_02]: But it's also a very nasty, [SPEAKER_02]: Instinct to cyber bully someone so badly that you think and also kind of like that reveals how sort of under the under the radar, his genre of slimyness is. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, where he, he always kind of like does it in in secret. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, or a little removed. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, he's uh, coward.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yes, a British coward. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, who knew? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And, and everyone's reaction to him saying that is like, oh, you were 15. [SPEAKER_00]: You were 15, you know, you were young. [SPEAKER_00]: You were 14. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't remember. [SPEAKER_00]: I think he might have been 14 and then Zendaya was 15 when she makes her admission, which is that she planned a school shooting. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: didn't do it, but brought the gun to school, and then didn't do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So like, it first they're all laughing because they're like, no way. [SPEAKER_02]: And they'll just don't do that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And then, [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like then they keep asking these questions that make it worse and worse because they're like, okay, but you didn't like get close right and she's like, no, I was I was going to do it.

[SPEAKER_02]: which also is in that moment frustrating because it's like, don't tell them that.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's like it's such an unforesterer that like, it's like just, you don't have to be this honest with these people. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, and then I haven't even been talking about it now and thinking about this scene, [SPEAKER_00]: Throughout the movie after this scene you sort of like understand more and more about like [SPEAKER_00]: what she was like as a teenager we get a lot of flashbacks of it and my heart even breaks for her in this scene that she you know she's drunk but she also thought that she could trust these people and that like she still hasn't really found people that she can trust or that would like [SPEAKER_00]: I think I was so, I mean, I gasped when I heard the reveal of what her secret was, because in the trailer that you see, if you are listening and haven't seen the trailer, that sort of reveals that this is the premise, it cuts off at Zendaya.

[SPEAKER_00]: So we know Zendaya did something horrible, but we don't know what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: And I am so used to movies making this type of situation a sex thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought for sure going in she will have done some sex thing that he doesn't like like maybe she had an only fans or like that was like kind of where I was and that would have been so cheap and like lazy and yeah and like such a different movie. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but this I think is like [SPEAKER_00]: way better is like worth having the conversation about, um, but is tough subject matter. [SPEAKER_00]: And so yeah, I just think I think I've seen a lot of reactions to the the reveal of this movie and like this piece of information.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's a really interesting pool swing to explore this subject matter in a dark comedy in this way. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think so too, because it's, I mean, the movie does definitely like make it so that you're kind of like, oh, what? [SPEAKER_02]: What would I do in that situation? [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, yeah, in in the movie like you absolutely are sympathizing with her and you're like, okay, this is all very unfair. [SPEAKER_02]: But then you're kind of like that is that is kind of crazy though, but then [SPEAKER_02]: Like, but then I like what we were talking about last week when we were like saying how it's like, well, we ran hard.

[SPEAKER_02]: So beautiful. [SPEAKER_02]: You're like, I grew up this beautiful can't do anything to that. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, if that's true, it is that it is someone so charming and beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: That was kind of like, a big deal. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is interesting that like, [SPEAKER_00]: She's charming and beautiful, but it is like the character is is a little shy and is a little like uncomfortable and so you're not like bold over by her charm necessarily a her relationship the relationship between her and Robert Pattinson you are a little bit like dazzled by their so charismatic together, but [SPEAKER_00]: I did, yeah, I did find that I was thinking, I like that this movie makes you think about like, what would you, what is your reaction to this?

[SPEAKER_00]: And what are you feeling right now? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, are you a lot of, hey, immediately freaks out at her and goes, you know my cousin, what shot? [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that was so funny when she's like, Sam, and Laura comes and is like, who is Sam? [SPEAKER_02]: She's like, I've been in the way. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think that's so funny because something was so funny, uh, but she, I mean, she has a really huge reaction to this and then anyone else, you know, Robert Pattinson later tells his, his coworker who also is kind of like, well, if they're a psychopath, I don't want to be with them, but it is a little like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, are you liable for the thoughts you had as a teenager and then I don't know.

[SPEAKER_02]: So because like, it is ridiculous when she's like, I would call the police and it's like, for what? [SPEAKER_02]: What's the crime? [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: But then then when you meet her boyfriend, you are also kind of like, he's preventing this scenario. [SPEAKER_02]: in the situation like where her boyfriend is because he's like what if your boyfriend said that he was going to do a math like that he thought of doing a mass shooting and she's picturing this scary anger issues man saying I almost did a mass shooting once and that is different than like that does seem more like a legit like

[SPEAKER_02]: I go with scary or just been a large man is scarier than Sunday. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and with all the flashbacks, it's like, you can see what happened there, like, totally like not saying that most teenagers would. [SPEAKER_02]: get into that. [SPEAKER_02]: But 14 year olds, 15 year olds are extremely like susceptible to online shit. [SPEAKER_02]: And the fact that like, and she even says she's like, and I was a girl in this space. [SPEAKER_02]: I got a lot of attention. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and so she's just like in this, in this bubble where it's like, [SPEAKER_02]: it seems cool.

[SPEAKER_02]: She even says there and he's like what appeal to you. [SPEAKER_02]: She's like the aesthetic of it, which makes me wonder if she's interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It makes me wonder if she's even herself wrong about how close she was to actually doing it. [SPEAKER_02]: like because she says like, no, I mean, I was going to do it. [SPEAKER_02]: The only thing that stopped me was that there was like a shooting at the mall. [SPEAKER_02]: But I think I have my doubts that that character would have gone through with it even if it weren't for that shooting.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like, [SPEAKER_02]: Does she think that and maybe she would have but it's like does she think that she was closer than she actually would but she wouldn't have ever actually done it [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's really interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: I could see that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I could, and also just the way you remember stuff from when you were a teenager is like never correct. [SPEAKER_00]: I do never crystal clear. [SPEAKER_02]: It is sort of, because I feel like you're really, really lulled into being like, okay, I totally sympathize.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's like, this wasn't that bad. [SPEAKER_02]: It's just thoughts of a, and sort of right when you're like, [SPEAKER_02]: Now, everyone's overreacting. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like that's when they kind of hit you with that very funny scene where she's trying to record her manifesto when like the windows keep coming up. [SPEAKER_02]: But it was so funny, it was so funny, but it's like you're kind of like just about but then in that moment as when she's like Sally you're gonna be the first to die and you're like yikes Yeah, I mean that is [SPEAKER_00]: But you know, I do believe that she, like in the character, I believe that the character was planning was planning what she said she was planning and I don't know how close she actually got to it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I also had a few questions about. [SPEAKER_00]: Where the gun was, she said she brought it to school, but I'm like, that big ass rifle in what you know, backpack was wondering that just curious, but I think I think that like it's an interesting conversation for the movie to bring up that like. [SPEAKER_00]: This is her reaction to like both bullying and neglect. [SPEAKER_00]: Like clearly, clearly she is like experiencing the neglect as a teenager. [SPEAKER_00]: Like parents are never shown.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, until and then like it's funny dollars on the fridge for dinner and exactly the fact that she's able to just tote this gun around and like exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: And the Louisiana of it all like that, you know, it's clearly like a place that is isolated that feels isolated.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's interesting to bring up that, like, sometimes it is just to teenagers the aesthetics of something. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like she feels like lonely and angry and otherd. [SPEAKER_02]: And that is a bad feeling that also is kind of like embarrassing sad all the stuff. [SPEAKER_02]: So then, of course, [SPEAKER_02]: she would be vulnerable to this weird online bubble that makes that seem cool and glamorous, being angry and lonely and other, but it's like no, actually you're cool and hot.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like edgy and rebellious and, you know, I just think it's like,

[SPEAKER_00]: It's scary and sad that that is a reality, but I, you know, I feel frustrated by the idea of people being so scandalized by the concept that they won't of the movie and of this twist that they won't grapple with the conversation that it [SPEAKER_00]: is starting because I think it's a conversation that like if no one has like if this if school shooting just in general is a third rail that nobody can touch unless it is completely overly sincere. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the no one will reach those people for to whom it appeals.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally. [SPEAKER_00]: And so like [SPEAKER_00]: In a way, I think that this movie being successful, having the biggest movie stars in the world, I don't think that these teenagers who want to do school shootings will necessarily all flock to this movie, but something that exists that sort of makes fun of this concept and sort of frames it in a different way, I can only be helpful. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that that underground like bubble that does create mass shooters, yeah, fullenorable teens online like to sort of bust that out into like the open and show it in the light and be like, doesn't this look kind of ridiculous?

[SPEAKER_02]: Actually, when you're looking at it like the light instead of like these underground tunnels of the mind that you have somehow gotten trapped in [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also, you know, I completely understand if you're like a parent or something, and you simply can't. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think it's great. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's like, it feeds a problem. [SPEAKER_00]: If you can't talk about this at all, yeah, but I completely understand a parent's reaction to hearing the very notion of this movie and being like disgusting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't do it. [SPEAKER_00]: to kind of like laugh about this concept and explore these ideas and explore these ideas around like, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: The big feelings and big thoughts of a teenager don't necessarily mean that you were evil your whole life. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, he cyberbullied someone. [SPEAKER_00]: That's also, yeah, that kid I've never done that either. [SPEAKER_02]: Easily killed themselves, you know, right. [SPEAKER_02]: That happens all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's like, okay, so your thing, which you actually did, could have led to something.

[SPEAKER_02]: that it didn't, but it could of. [SPEAKER_02]: And that would have resulted in more, more deaths than, than her thing that she didn't do did. [SPEAKER_02]: Same with the Rachel. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: That kid could have died. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, easily. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And the other thing I was thinking about the aesthetics as I was watching this movie and like how the aesthetics appeal to teens, I was [SPEAKER_00]: a sophomore in high school when the matrix came out.

[SPEAKER_00]: And to say I was obsessed with the aesthetics and the vibes and the whole thing of the matrix is an understatement. [SPEAKER_00]: I purchased many long coats. [SPEAKER_00]: I dabbled in leather pants. [SPEAKER_00]: But that was very gun-heavy, too, and I never necessarily, you know, I was in high school and Columbine happened. [SPEAKER_00]: So, like, yeah, this wasn't quite a pipeline in the same way I don't think or I didn't know how to get on that part of the internet if it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can see how those aesthetics appeal to a teenager that like, the tough like being tough and feared and like, if you're in a dark place as a teen and you're being neglected, like, yeah, this can happen and we need to be able to talk about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and it's not like a thing where it's like, oh, any team could have would have done the same. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, no, I don't think every teenager, like I don't think every team is just like, I'm gonna, but it's just like you can see how it could happen to some who are not sociopaths, but just are very vulnerable.

[SPEAKER_02]: There was a guy in my school. [SPEAKER_02]: He was a senior when I was like a freshman maybe and he always wore like a long black leather coat and had like a long like low-blown ponytail. [SPEAKER_02]: And this was sort of so past Columbine that we didn't even that we just thought of him as we just called him matrix guy. [SPEAKER_02]: And then matrix guy got expelled for keeping a bunch of knives in his locker.

[SPEAKER_00]: But who knows what he was going to do with those? [SPEAKER_02]: Forks found a little bit of something we're going to do. [SPEAKER_02]: I found in locker. [SPEAKER_02]: I do think it was just his personal collection that maybe his mom was like, you can't have those. [SPEAKER_02]: So he said, I'll bring him to school. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm impressed you were allowed to have lockers. [SPEAKER_00]: We weren't allowed to have lockers when I was in high school. [UNKNOWN]: Really?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I I must have been in high school in the weirdest fucking time in like South Los Angeles because I was in Long Beach and it was I was in high school from 1998 to 2002 [SPEAKER_00]: the weird. [SPEAKER_00]: So it was like, so you know, it's like a immediately after kind of like two two-pock biggie gang war crimson bloods, not that that's over that you know, I know gang still exist, but like in long beach at that time, they were like, oh, we got to do anything to keep this gang [SPEAKER_00]: It's from killing each other at school and so we weren't allowed to have lockers.

[SPEAKER_00]: We had to wear uniforms in a public school. [SPEAKER_00]: They also had us do like 80 more credits than you would normally have to do to graduate because they were trying to [SPEAKER_02]: You're too busy. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't do violence because of homework and yeah, so it was it was just like a weird chunk of years. [SPEAKER_00]: I think to be in high school. [SPEAKER_00]: I remember sitting at the pizza place that was like down the street from my high school watching column by and on the news like with all my like classmate like all my friends and we were just like, whoa, never heard of something like this before.

[SPEAKER_02]: What is this that I don't I I could be wrong. [SPEAKER_02]: I was I've and I was never like on the deep internet or anything The years felt a little off to me just because She's 30 they specify that she is 30 so she's yeah Well, I'm 31 as a few days ago, but she's basically my age yes, and I feel like

[SPEAKER_02]: I might just be forgetting, but I remember like, Sandy Hook happening like my senior year of high school. [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like 30 year olds, current 30 year olds were not. [SPEAKER_02]: in school during like when when mass shootings got like lazy every day it's happening you know like we never had drills you know yeah it's sending a considered I mean I'm so sorry we're having this conversation it's been a considered [SPEAKER_00]: Like the threshold of when it gets, does it get crazier after or before?

[SPEAKER_02]: I guess in my mind, just because I have such a clear memory of it, but I'm told if it's before and it all kind of led to then I'm wrong, I just know that like my generation, like we didn't have school shooter drills. [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't, it wasn't as much in the consciousness. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that between, if we think about the time between Colin Binance and Sandy Hook, I think there were a lot that happened. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think they revved up slowly, like I don't think in the late 90s, early 2000s, it was that many, but like, I think the 2010s did have a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, yeah, um, well, that's because I think I graduated 2013. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think Sandy Hook is when, when drills started, probably an earnest, like, because I think before that no one, like, we couldn't fathom that someone would do that. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so horrific. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like hard to even wrap my head around now. [SPEAKER_00]: But, um, but I do remember, like, multiple [SPEAKER_00]: where they were really going off, no one had considered elementary schools I think before that.

[SPEAKER_00]: So it would make sense to me that this character also I don't know if like

[SPEAKER_00]: in California, it would have felt a little different than it would have been like Louisiana, where it's like very, he had a lot of guns or he was, was her dad like in the army or something. [SPEAKER_00]: He was in the army. [SPEAKER_02]: So I think it was just the one, it was just the one gun. [SPEAKER_02]: And just had access to this one gun. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: But there would have been probably like a general familiarity with firearms and the family. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I feel like I like that they save that reveal of him being military Yes, until so and you're like, oh interesting because that's Military families like yeah, I feel like our art typically pretty pro.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, gone and stuff [SPEAKER_00]: And it's just interesting that as the movie goes on, they make this reveal in the first half hour, and then the whole story of the movie is just Robert Pattinson trying to decide, like, does he not marry her now? [SPEAKER_00]: Or is this so bad that he can't do it? [SPEAKER_00]: Then I like that as the movie goes on, we just get one more data point every five minutes, or so, that kind of like, [SPEAKER_00]: makes the story feel more clear and you're just like, I don't know, I get, like, I don't, she didn't do it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, she seems because she seems sufficiently remorseful about it too. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, she's the only one of all of them that did something about that felt guilty enough about the thing that she didn't actually do to then, you know, and it's a combo with like the her then becoming like an anti gun activist, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think part of that is remorse and part of that is just to show like how much all she wanted was to be like part of a group like exactly that's it's not that's all she wanted was for someone to like invite her into the fold and so yeah Then she was taking attention from where she was getting it and it was a really really really really really bad place and so then when she [SPEAKER_00]: you know when she's invited into the full she goes full you know full steam ahead with like that yeah and her personality blossoms and she like becomes the person that shade needs to come and you know there are embarrassing steps on everyone's path and some of them aren't [SPEAKER_02]: Ast horrific is this one but you know I thought it was also interesting like going back to the aesthetics Like which also like it's interesting to have him be British because yeah, it has an outsider's perspective on like the Pervasiveness of of guns and gun culture in America and so he's like a little less desensitized to it then

[SPEAKER_02]: you know we are but like when that book shows up on his desk and he starts like imagining like her looking absolutely incredible like holding guns and stuff I feel like that's around when he starts to kind of like think he can make peace with it and it's like [SPEAKER_02]: He can only, he only thinks he can maybe forgive and be okay with this when he finds something to be horny about. [SPEAKER_02]: Interesting that hadn't I had not clocked that, but yeah, it's because that book is just like girls and bikinis holding guns, which it's like right, which it's like on one hand you're like, yeah, the aesthetic is like out there that like doesn't actually [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it provokes a sort of, it's provocative, because all it is, it's just like, especially for the British mind, you know?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do find that interesting.

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm also cheating. [SPEAKER_00]: The cheating is so exactly what I was about to start talking about. [SPEAKER_00]: So he ends up sort of half accidentally hooking up with the coworker. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he fully initiates it. [SPEAKER_02]: But then when she's like, OK, he's like, no, I can't. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I notice, like, [SPEAKER_02]: earlier, like with the wedding photographer appointment, there's just one little shot of him like looking at the hot receptionist. [SPEAKER_00]: Interesting.

[SPEAKER_02]: So that like there's no there's no reason for that shot other than I thought to look sort of set up that like this is a man with a wandering eye. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, I didn't really clock that at all, but I think that's that's that is certainly like present in the text when he kisses his coworker yeah and he kisses his coworker after like explaining kind of hypothetically explaining his situation and trying to get her take on it and then he starts crying it's like such a gross pathetic yeah mess

[SPEAKER_00]: I also just want to say that the co-worker, that actress Hayley Gates, to me, she is like my ultimate cool it girl. [SPEAKER_02]: He does seem really cool and she's very beautiful. [SPEAKER_00]: We time I see her. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm like, this is the coolest woman. [SPEAKER_00]: And she, you didn't see the moment, the Charlie XX movie. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: She plays the creative director in the moment. [SPEAKER_00]: That's like close with Charlie XX. [SPEAKER_00]: And whenever I look at Haley Gates's Instagram, which I do sometimes.

[SPEAKER_00]: She's like a photographer and she's like written and directed. [SPEAKER_00]: She has that Chloe seven-year cool Brooklyn untouchably cool, ethereal cool, kind of thing going on. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it really worked in art museum employee eating a salad with her weird [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, kind of game with his weird questions, but she's also kind of like, weird, weird, but okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and I just, you know, I guess I just, this was Haley Gates Corner. [SPEAKER_00]: I just wanted to say I'm really rooting for her.

[SPEAKER_00]: I want to see her movie, Attropia, the lie. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it looks interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: The plan. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I have not seen it, but I might watch it. [SPEAKER_02]: Me sometime too. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah, but yes, the cheating. [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't getting that telegraph ahead of time, but when it happened, I couldn't say I was that shocked that that's what he did for me as a man. [SPEAKER_02]: And then, um, and it's also because he had just asked her what's the worst thing you've ever done, and she's like, I don't know cheating.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, so it's a hot on his mind and then he like wants it to be worse. [SPEAKER_02]: He's like, well, like cheating, like, you know, and she's like cheating's not bad enough.

[SPEAKER_02]: I loved her in this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: She was great. [SPEAKER_02]: And then I do want to talk more about Rachel just because I feel like through the whole thing, like, oh, yeah, like when Robert Penson goes to see her and Mike and [SPEAKER_02]: He tells that story that's not true. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it's like, there's how he feels about it, but also so much about how he feels about it is about how other people feel about it. [SPEAKER_02]: Like he is looking for permission to be okay with it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so when then Rachel is just called me like absolutely not like this is her rific I won't respect you if you marry her. [SPEAKER_02]: I'll never speak to you again. [SPEAKER_02]: Like that also has him questioning like Beyond what he actually feels about it like oh am I am I allowed to? [SPEAKER_02]: Forgive her or be okay with this, but Rachel, I feel like from the moment, she says that thing about like, you know, my cousin is paralyzed from a shooting. [SPEAKER_02]: You can just like, [SPEAKER_02]: watch her, just like gaining this source of power, where then the whole movie, she is so like high on her own supply of self-righteousness, and she loves it so much, like she's having the best time being so self-righteous, and [SPEAKER_02]: It's watching her is so frustrating because that is such a real type of horrible person.

[SPEAKER_02]: We're like, you will never be able to reason with this person because it's not about the actual thing or how they feel about it. [SPEAKER_02]: They just love feeling righteous more than they love anything else on this planet. [SPEAKER_02]: so they will never give that up. [SPEAKER_02]: They will never give up that feeling of being able to like school and feel like holier than now. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, 100%. [SPEAKER_00]: And how completely infuriating to watch to watch it play out. [SPEAKER_02]: And then when she's like, she had me fired from the job, when she's the one who wasn't responding to E-mail.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, which that is also like solid media literacy test that like, I think, went over some people's heads that she was making things sound worse than they were in many situations. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was really, really funny [SPEAKER_00]: to ask if it's okay to go this wedding. [SPEAKER_00]: The cousin doesn't know any of these people. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which also it's like, that just shows how much she's not keeping that conversation between the four of them when, like, her pitch for them, having that conversation was like, it'll just be between us.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and that like it's it's a type of person that I've known so many times that like the second they get a grain of something that they could make about themselves they use it and run with it full steam to involve anyone they can't they're like [SPEAKER_02]: We actually have to meet and have lunch because I have to ask you question and it's like that's their personality until they can't ring anything else out of it and then they get another thing to make their personality. [SPEAKER_00]: It's such a specific kind of evil.

[SPEAKER_02]: I, I did love her acting at the wedding the way it like when she like turns to my just like Oh my god. [SPEAKER_00]: It's so, it's like painful to watch, it's really painful to watch, and I think she seems lovely every time I've seen her be interviewed, and I'm like, this is the performance of the century, because you are not this awful, people in line are being so mean about her, and being like, why is she in this? [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, she's really good in it! [SPEAKER_02]: She's an actor.

[SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_02]: I literally think it's just that she's not like conventionally attractive in the way people want actresses to be. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and she's in a band and people like can't seem to fathom that someone artistic has more than one interest. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's just so interesting how whenever someone has a criticism they're like and she's so ugly and it's like, oh my god. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god. [SPEAKER_02]: Relax.

[SPEAKER_02]: During the photo shoot with the photographer, there was there was a joke in it that was very funny, [SPEAKER_02]: It is just literally a 30-rock joke. [SPEAKER_02]: That's one of my favorite 30-rock jokes, which is the when she's like telling him like, oh, it's mild, smile like you've done it before, smile like a normal person. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like when Liz gets a talk show. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I dare do it. [SPEAKER_02]: the like promo like for for commercials and stuff and it's literally like smile like a person smile and a bit like it's a classic for a reason it's a great story rock job but I was like just just did the video joke [SPEAKER_00]: But also the photographers, Zoe Winters, is that actress?

[SPEAKER_00]: Incredible. [SPEAKER_02]: So funny. [SPEAKER_02]: Really, really funny. [SPEAKER_02]: The first I'll shoot you, then I'll shoot the ring bear, then I'll shoot your parents. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, shooting grandparents, TBD. [SPEAKER_02]: So funny. [SPEAKER_00]: And the her, I mean, just like a really good performance of like talking like the sort of like, [SPEAKER_00]: slippery wedding vendor vibe of like talking while smiling like okay yeah and like when it's like clearly going bad oh my god this just also I mean I do think the one thing this movie did so so well and I didn't have a big real wedding so you know what do I know but thank you [SPEAKER_00]: It captured the horrors of the various fucking annoying stupid vendors that you have to deal with for a wedding.

[SPEAKER_00]: And like, love and light to all my wedding vendor friends. [SPEAKER_00]: But [SPEAKER_00]: There are a lot, but, you know, they'd be the first to admit. [SPEAKER_00]: There are also a lot of bad ones out there. [SPEAKER_00]: The dance teacher was one of the funniest things in the movie. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, it was like, why is this lady so mean? [SPEAKER_02]: That is the choreographer from Testament of Anne Lee.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, very cool. [SPEAKER_02]: And to believe the score was by the testament of Anne Lee guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the wedding, the DJ stuff where this that was really funny was doing heroin on the street is just there are so many good jokes in this movie like this is a very funny movie and an interesting exploration of like unconditional love thoughts versus actions and you know [SPEAKER_00]: If you should be responsible for stuff when you were a teenager in your adult life and how that should ruin your life or not But also a very perfect skewering of the experience of a wedding topped about them.

[SPEAKER_02]: The second DJ So funny like that guy is always so funny. [SPEAKER_02]: He's so funny. [SPEAKER_02]: If you were a gear head, that would be pretty interesting Pretty unusual [SPEAKER_00]: all of the little bit characters were like amazing incredible yeah i really really loved it little things like the mug thing was so funny he throws away the mug with the gun yeah i'll have it was so good i really i you know i think we we've maybe pivoted into the part where we're just gushing but i really recommend this movie if you can handle that piece of [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because it's like, it is very dark.

[SPEAKER_02]: It is dark and I think that like an interesting thing about this movie is that [SPEAKER_02]: It is making such a splash. [SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of people that don't go to the movies that often are going to this. [SPEAKER_02]: And so it's like, I think we're very much like, it's a dark comedy. [SPEAKER_02]: It's dark, but it's where we're equipped in the head space to be like, okay, yeah, this isn't like that shocking. [SPEAKER_02]: But I think that to people that don't see that many movies a year, I think people are, [SPEAKER_02]: feel uncomfortable when they're like, I'm laughing at this, but it's dark.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm confused. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like the people who went to see Eddington for Pedro Pascal. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And they're like, well, what is that?

[SPEAKER_00]: I thought of Eddington when I was watching this, too, because Eddington was the other experience of like watching a movie being like, man, the conversation around this is going to suck ass. [SPEAKER_00]: It's going to be so bad. [SPEAKER_02]: I love Eddington. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought it was so good and smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's no coincidence that this was produced by Ariaster. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He knows. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I like movies that come from the perspective of a little stinker, someone who's just being kind of like, kind of shitty about everything, and like, it doesn't have to go full cynic. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that they're can still be like, I thought that with the exception of Alana Ham, who I just hated, everyone had redeeming qualities even when they were negative.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's the good space to live in. [SPEAKER_00]: It doesn't have to be that the characters are all horrible and everyone's horrible and isn't the world bad. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is maybe top of mind because I saw that there's a John C. Riley clip going around where he's like cynicism is the laziest posture and I don't like to see movies where everyone sucks and I don't think that that should be the case either, but I do think like there's a balance that I think [SPEAKER_00]: gives like a nice catharsis.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the actor who plays Mike is also in another really all-time or little, little marriage thing, which is one of the, one of the three, what would you call him? [SPEAKER_02]: Hmm, not vignettes, but sort of, of kinds of kindness. [SPEAKER_02]: Did you see that? [SPEAKER_02]: I did, but I don't remember him, is he is, in that middle one, we're Jesse Plumman's wife, Emma Stone, like Disappears, and then comes back, and he thinks it's not really her. [SPEAKER_02]: It's his, and he's a cop, and it's his partner.

[SPEAKER_02]: situation. [SPEAKER_02]: There's the part where him and his wife have dinner with Emma Stone and Jesse Plummans. [SPEAKER_02]: And then there's this like incredible reveal. [SPEAKER_02]: to them all watching a video of them all fucking each other of them wife swapping. [SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember that? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like I think I had almost never heard as bigger reaction in the theater as when it just cuts to like the video of them wife swapping fucking each other's wives on the same bed.

[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone was like, [SPEAKER_00]: Kinds of kindness truly a movie that I Alex and I were the only people in the theater for here Yeah, okay, he's that guy. [SPEAKER_02]: That's funny How did you take the ending like do you think they're gonna Stay together. [SPEAKER_00]: I do yeah, I do too. [SPEAKER_00]: I took it as like [SPEAKER_00]: that it took some chaos and some work, but that, you know, unconditional love is probably too strong of a phrase for what they are experiencing, but something like that, something if you say it's lighter, that like he came around to the idea that he knows he loves her and he knows her now [SPEAKER_00]: he needs to let this go.

[SPEAKER_00]: He shouldn't be held to this like standard of like you shouldn't have had a bad thought when you were a teenager. [SPEAKER_02]: And really by the end like he's the one that needs to be forgiven and she's clearly a much more like forgiving person than he is. [SPEAKER_02]: Yes, but it's like yeah, that point like all the shit with the wedding she did on her. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it would be really hard to get over like the fact that she revealed this thought. [SPEAKER_02]: She's never actually been violent, but he suddenly is like scared.

[SPEAKER_02]: She's gonna stab him. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like that would be a hard hard pill to swallow to know that there was a period where like all the sudden this person you love, like didn't trust that you're you or whatever, but she's clearly a very forgiving person. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's like she can forgive all that shit he's put her through in the past week. [SPEAKER_00]: I also think that like [SPEAKER_00]: If you think about what her reveal is versus his reaction and everyone's kind of like behavior, she has clearly done a lot of work on herself from the time she was a teenager to now, and he hasn't.

[SPEAKER_00]: He is too emotional, he's not handling [SPEAKER_00]: He's not handling anything with any kind of maturity. [SPEAKER_00]: He's just being obsessive and like not questioning that maybe that's like Actually not the way to deal with a problem like this. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and he seems like He is a good guy. [SPEAKER_02]: It is core, but he definitely has a little bit of that like I'm just just sweet boy Like arrangement syndrome We're like men are just like I know I'm a sweet little guy [SPEAKER_00]: Not you then who are listening.

[SPEAKER_00]: We love you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: You're actually a little guys I swear [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, totally. [SPEAKER_00]: He just has, it's just clear by the end that his character has not worked on himself at all and he doesn't handle problems correctly. [SPEAKER_00]: He has no coping skills and he needs to work on that and her forgiving him is like very mature and they need to now work together and fuck all those other people who are out of the wedding, I guess. [SPEAKER_00]: And maybe he needs to quit his job.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, it was so bad because like she's so sad at the wedding, yeah, I mean, like, yeah, I feel bad for her the entire wedding sequence. [SPEAKER_00]: She's just uncomfortable and everyone is just making her uncomfortable and [SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, it sucks. [SPEAKER_00]: Zendaya deserves better than this. [SPEAKER_02]: He deserves better. [SPEAKER_02]: If this happens at her in Tom Holland's wedding, I'm going to be very upset. [SPEAKER_00]: Tom would never. [SPEAKER_00]: Never.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think I've exhausted all my thoughts that I have about this movie. [SPEAKER_00]: If anything else, you want to bring up. [SPEAKER_04]: I think.

[SPEAKER_04]: No, I think that's, uh, you know, another 20 minutes on school shootings.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think I'm good. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, hope you guys liked it. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah, we don't know what movie we're doing next week. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's a bit like it. [SPEAKER_00]: It'll be a surprise. [SPEAKER_00]: Enjoy. [SPEAKER_00]: Bye. [UNKNOWN]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was it. [SPEAKER_00]: That was our conversation about the drama. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: If you enjoyed the conversation, I have a tiny request. [SPEAKER_00]: It's not even a big deal. [SPEAKER_00]: If you could just text this episode to a friend, that would be really helpful. [SPEAKER_00]: These personal recommendations are the mainway podcasts grow, and so I would really love it. [SPEAKER_00]: If you recommended us to someone, you know, maybe you have a friend who you're [SPEAKER_00]: Maybe some of you like talking about school shootings with, I don't know, it's none of my business what your relationship is to this person.

[SPEAKER_00]: But either way, appreciate it. [SPEAKER_00]: You can follow us anywhere online that you like to hang out. [SPEAKER_00]: We're on Instagram, we're on TikTok, we're on YouTube. [SPEAKER_00]: We have a Patreon that we don't put anything on, but you could give us your email address there, if you want. [SPEAKER_00]: And again, thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_00]: We'll see you at the movies. [SPEAKER_00]: Goodbye.

[SPEAKER_00]: medium-literate was created and produced by Monica Scott and Emily Fay. [SPEAKER_00]: Our theme music was composed by Christian Larson and technical help is from Alex Luchin. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening and we will see you at the movies.

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