The Bride

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, so I just got out of the bride exclamation point and I first of all, I'm in support of punctuation and titles. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's funny, but ultimately, no, it's not that kind of, I do kind of think it's funny that it was like, [SPEAKER_02]: This is the natural end point for a manic pixie dream girl, which is psychotic pixie nightmare woman.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we got a talks name about it. [SPEAKER_00]: This was just a horror movie about what if you found out that your boyfriend was club Shalame and to be fair, that is literally the scariest thing I could possibly imagine.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello and welcome to Medium Literate, the podcast where two long-time best friends try to sharpen our media literacy skills by having a long conversation every week about a new movie that's in theaters. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm Emily Fay and my co-host is Monica Scott. [SPEAKER_00]: And today we're talking about the bride, exclamation point, by Maggie Gillen Hall. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening on audio, you can also find us on YouTube where there's video. [SPEAKER_00]: And this is your spoiler warning because the whole podcast is basically one big spoiler.

[SPEAKER_00]: So if you're going to see it, maybe you want to turn it off and come back. [SPEAKER_00]: But if you're not going to see it or you don't care, have at it. [SPEAKER_00]: We're happier here. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you and enjoy. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I have got to know what did you think of the bride first, first initial thoughts. [SPEAKER_00]: And then there was, it was so convoluted and yet kind of slow, did you feel that way? [SPEAKER_02]: Slow is interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't. [SPEAKER_02]: slow didn't necessarily hit me.

[SPEAKER_02]: I will, so not to not to be a letter box bro, but to put it in letter box terms, I gave it a 3.5 out of 5.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's above average. [SPEAKER_02]: in terms of I was entertains while watching the movie for the duration of the movie, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Like there was no point where I was bored. [SPEAKER_02]: So it's interesting to hear you say slow.

[SPEAKER_02]: But I don't think it was like excellent. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it was like entertaining enough that I had fun while in my seat. [SPEAKER_02]: And after this conversation, I fear I might not ever think about this movie again. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like weirdly unmemorable for how weird it was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like, yes, I think if I were to put it in letter box terms, I think I don't really use letter box because I forget and then I'm like, oh, no, I have ten things to log and then I get overwhelmed. [SPEAKER_00]: So I just don't do it, but I think I can give it like a two and a half. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like, effort, kind of just, it was fine, sort of like all of, okay, this kind of bad, but like, yeah, you know what, I enjoyed watching it more than I enjoyed watching him nit, I'll tell you that much.

[SPEAKER_02]: Well, yeah, I mean, yeah, I do wish I hope someday for Jesse Buckley to have a nice time in a movie. [SPEAKER_02]: She's kind of, she's kind of always having a tough time and everything I've seen her in and she's good at it. [SPEAKER_00]: I really like her and I think that that, [SPEAKER_00]: gave this movie a lot of credit for me. [SPEAKER_02]: That is an observation I had made for myself as well, was that because so I think the bride had the bride exclamation point. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, every time we say it, there should be going like the bride!

[SPEAKER_02]: The bride! [SPEAKER_02]: I think the bride had a lot [SPEAKER_02]: that just didn't quite stick the landing for itself. [SPEAKER_02]: But I kind of liked that it was a big weird swing and so that paired with I like Jesse Buckley and found her performance. [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I will say performance and character in my mind are two different things because the character of the bride was deeply fucking annoying. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god, the most annoying, like, will get into it, but like, these two losers, these two absolute fucking losers, I couldn't stand them, and just so I'm clear which combination of two are the losers is it, [SPEAKER_00]: These three losers, but it was I didn't Frank.

[SPEAKER_00]: It was like the couple that like I'm so sorry, but like they were pajama pants of the grocery store with t-shirts that say normal people bore me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like okay, you kind of got a hot topic. [SPEAKER_02]: You got a hot topic t-shirt read off. [SPEAKER_02]: I very much so very much so [SPEAKER_02]: That's really funny. [SPEAKER_02]: That's really funny. [SPEAKER_02]: You know what? [SPEAKER_02]: That wasn't necessarily my read on it at all, but I can't see it now that it's pointed out.

[SPEAKER_00]: I am curious about your read on it.

[SPEAKER_02]: You know, [SPEAKER_02]: But I think much to the annoyance of like a lot of people I talked to, I have trouble watching a movie that I think maybe has some issues without and like analyzing the movie without thinking about like the filmmakers. [SPEAKER_02]: goals like what were they trying to do and if it didn't work like you know I think because I'm not a filmmaker but I'm a creative person as well like like thinking about like what was the aim like what were we shooting for that we didn't quite make yeah and so the whole time I'm like [SPEAKER_02]: Why is Maggie Gillin all saying this is like kind of what kept going through like that and I actually have a lot of like empathy for if I, you know, I, there's, I really enjoyed this like New York times the interview episode with her because I don't feel like there was super easy on her and she was very thoughtful in what she said.

[SPEAKER_02]: But when I think about her and I think about how she started acting very young and she's from an industry family and she was in secretary at 22 and she was like sexualized and you know, she's in control ish, but is an actress in the early 2000s ever in control. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: like I just I think about all that stuff in the arc that brought us to this point where it's like she's now in her late 40s she has daughters. [SPEAKER_02]: She experienced like pre me to Hollywood and then post me to Hollywood.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I think she wanted to say way too much in a movie, in a shell that couldn't quite house it in the way she was trying to have it, be housed in there. [SPEAKER_02]: Because my other read was like, oh, I don't get the sense that Maggie Jellin Hall likes genre storytelling.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so she wasn't good at the tone, right? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it had like no sense of humor about it. [SPEAKER_02]: No, it, I didn't eat it too. [SPEAKER_00]: The reason I was looking forward to it, like was because that old Hollywood monster stuff is so fun, like that is such a fun vibe, but it didn't have any hemp element to it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but it almost did with like the sort of surreal dance scenes and stuff, but like it didn't lean into any tone enough, like it didn't lean into can't be got thick enough, it didn't lean into glory enough, like I don't know I think I think my main core issue with the movie was that [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like in the movie, the characters were like saying that the movie was about stuff that I didn't see actually occurring.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was very like, they were telling instead of showing. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And they were saying things in the movie where I was like, oh, but it wasn't earned or something. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I can feel that. [SPEAKER_02]: I also felt like the movie was hitting me on the nose with a newspaper about feminism over and over. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And I, you know, at a certain point, I was like, she screams me to that was there, there were it's like going to be honest several points where I was feeling such strong like second hand embarrassment that like my hand was like over my eyes.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that was one of those moments. [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it is also kind of, again, I mean, I, I am indulging in my worst habit of pathologizing a stranger, but like, it feels like this is not like Maggie Jillon Hall. [SPEAKER_02]: I love the lost daughter. [SPEAKER_02]: I watched it yesterday morning. [SPEAKER_02]: I had never watched it before, but after seeing the bride, I was like, well, what is it? [SPEAKER_02]: And there's another movie of hers like, like, is it always kind of like this?

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And I thought the lost daughter was like, I loved it. [SPEAKER_02]: And I loved, I just thought the tone is executed really well. [SPEAKER_02]: It's like this complicated story about womanhood and femininity and motherhood and all these things that women deal with.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then I see this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: And I see her talking about it where she's like, [SPEAKER_02]: You do like a feminist story on a, you know, these aren't her exact words, but a feminist story on like a large pop culture scale. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think to do a large pop culture scale movie. [SPEAKER_02]: You kind of have to like those kinds of movies and I get the sense that she's a weird art girl who doesn't really like this type of stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, because it was so like the the vein of feminism was weird because nothing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Nothing feminist actually happens in this movie whatsoever. [SPEAKER_00]: Not a single thing. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, that's Lady Joker. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and it's like, the thing I actually liked about Joker too was like, I love. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: I like to joke her. [SPEAKER_00]: I like that it revealed that like lady Gaga's character is this like she's not really nuts. [SPEAKER_00]: She's just kind of like a weird fraud who's like in it for the aesthetics. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you know opportunist fraud.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I liked that element. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is was like the thing I thought was coolest about the movie or more like most interesting, whereas this one it's like [SPEAKER_00]: no one really does anything that radical or interesting, but they're claiming that that's what's happening, but the plot doesn't line up with what we're being told is happening in the plot. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I also, like I think a big issue was like, [SPEAKER_02]: So let's talk about Christian Bale for a second.

[SPEAKER_02]: I listen, I saw Yermodotor's Frankenstein last year and my main thought was like, why does Frankenstein look like that, right? [SPEAKER_02]: And so immediately saying Christian bail in this as Frankenstein's monster, I was like, okay, this is like good creature design. [SPEAKER_02]: This looks realistic and natural. [SPEAKER_00]: And he looked gross in a way that he looked. [SPEAKER_00]: He looked, he didn't. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean Jacob Alordi looked genuinely like he was just doing like eyeliner goofball makeup and yeah Christian bail was gross.

[SPEAKER_02]: I kind of liked this Frankenstein's monster being [SPEAKER_02]: sort of soft. [SPEAKER_02]: I can't quite find the right word, but he was like a softer characterization. [SPEAKER_02]: He was capable of violence, but not interested in it. [SPEAKER_02]: And then like, he was a bit conservative. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which was interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought he was kind of giving like his performance was kind of [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there was something really like dopey and kind of pathetic about it.

[SPEAKER_02]: Thatic is the word because, and it's, it goes back to what I was starting to say, which is that I sort of wish this movie was like one of the other. [SPEAKER_02]: I know that the origin of the brighter Frankenstein is that, you know, Frankenstein's monster wants a bride, but.

[SPEAKER_02]: I was having trouble squaring while watching the movie. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, I feel sad for him. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, and this core story of Frankenstein is that his monster, his creation, is like, is crushingly lonely? [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And I felt that in this movie and this performance. [SPEAKER_02]: But then I was like, okay, so I kind of, I don't want her to be mad at him. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I also was like, I don't get why she's in love with him. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't think, you know, they also wanted us to believe like, to be rooting for like them being in love and I'm like, I don't get it and also it's not very feminist to, um, to against your will be reanimated specifically to be with this man and then, oh, guess what you actually are in love with him.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it blended it so for me, there were four movies that it was like reminding me of simultaneously by the end, which was like Bonnie and Clyde Romeo and Juliet. [SPEAKER_02]: Those are kind of the obvious ones. [SPEAKER_02]: And then Joker and Cruella. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: I also, I really liked Cruella. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Cruella was fun. [SPEAKER_02]: I remember Cruella being fun. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know if I had any [SPEAKER_02]: I never thought about it again until I saw this, so it's also not a story that stuck with me Joker stuck with me longer.

[SPEAKER_02]: I controversially didn't hate Joker. [SPEAKER_02]: I know the filmmaker was maybe kind of a asshole, but I mean, I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I just, it came to me when I saw it, it came to me at a time where I also felt like I was one of the few not insane people.

[SPEAKER_02]: And I know that's wrong, but when I saw it, I was like, yeah, this is what it feels like when you feel like, why is everybody being saying, I didn't know the joke or really spoke to you. [SPEAKER_02]: I did genuinely like it. [SPEAKER_02]: I think I might be on a podcast talking about that at the time, because I think I went on goods, goods from the woods that weekend, that was like, I really like it.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm covering my eyes out of shame for admitting I like the Joker, I like it, but I wouldn't say I relate it. [SPEAKER_02]: I just did, I did relate and I, you know, I think it was, went to the come out 2021. [SPEAKER_02]: This is maybe something I should have looked up. [SPEAKER_02]: At the time we came out, I think I didn't feel like people have been insane. [SPEAKER_02]: It was like right after COVID or in the middle after controversial to say it's over, I know. [SPEAKER_02]: But it was like in that time when people were just still at each other's throat and a really crazy way.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think that is part of what I was feeling. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't need to analyze this thing, believe me. [SPEAKER_02]: Let me back out of my joke or take, but just to say, like, I did really, I did like connect to that movie a little bit. [SPEAKER_02]: And I, I feel that this movie wanted me to feel those feelings as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, about like, the oppression of women. [SPEAKER_02]: And I just didn't. [SPEAKER_02]: I think some of it had to do with like,

[SPEAKER_02]: We are constantly putting the bride in situations of sexual violence in this movie. [SPEAKER_02]: And I think in 1930s America there are actually like other ways women were in danger as well. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it doesn't have to be that every time to illustrate the injustice and danger that women experience and to only use that is like kind of [SPEAKER_02]: not my favorite type of storytelling. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, um, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to like go back to the beginning and the, the Mary Shelley thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: All right.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, yeah, that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so something about this movie, there were, there were four times as many knock knock jokes [SPEAKER_00]: Except that's not true because that would actually mathematically imply that I thought there might be one knock knock joke, which I'd write I thought there would be zero knock knock jokes, and I was counting while watching there were four What was up with that? [SPEAKER_00]: Knock knock who's there? [SPEAKER_00]: It's me Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm dead. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay Yeah, I [SPEAKER_02]: This is, yeah, the Mary Shelley thing didn't work for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: No, I say that right off the bat. [SPEAKER_00]: You're great. [SPEAKER_02]: I also was, I was really bumping on it when it came time for a dance sequence, where an entire room was also possessed. [SPEAKER_00]: You know. [SPEAKER_02]: And I felt a little like, and this is maybe a good example of like, I think a fan of genre of storytelling might pick up on the fact that you actually have to establish the rules of what the otherworldly thing is that's happening in your movie and if you don't establish those rules, when something crazy happens, I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: No, I reject this.

[SPEAKER_00]: It just didn't make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: And like, yeah, genre of these don't have to like, yeah, make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, you have to be able to make sense of it, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: And so it's like, from what I could gather in this world, [SPEAKER_00]: Frankenstein, the book exists. [SPEAKER_00]: Also Frankenstein is real, but also Mary Shelley is a ghost who wants to write another Frankenstein, but it's real. [SPEAKER_00]: So she's making it happen real.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, I think maybe [SPEAKER_00]: There's this whole like female rage thing, which again, I'm not really seeing, but like, I think it would have hit harder if she was murdered in an accident. [SPEAKER_02]: And not like an accident. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, which also the accident itself was caused by Mary Shelley's ghost. [SPEAKER_00]: She wouldn't have fallen otherwise, you know? [SPEAKER_02]: And also it's like so Mary Shelley possessed this woman and then she just happened to die and now she's the bride of Frankenstein like what yeah Mary Shelley kind of looked out that she ended up being the bride because otherwise she would have just possessed a woman for like three minutes total exactly and then she would have just been in the grounds forever like.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I. [SPEAKER_02]: I, I bumped on all of that stuff as well, because it, because again, I just was like sort of. [SPEAKER_02]: I was mentally feeling around for like what are the rules of this situation. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't understand also the.

[SPEAKER_02]: Do you know that much about Mary Shelley? [SPEAKER_02]: I don't really know that much about Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, just like the main little little details, you know, like the little fun facts people like to say about Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the, I know, I just know she wrote Frankenstein at like a party at Lord Byron's house. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, I didn't even know that. [SPEAKER_00]: They have a little ghost story competition and she wrote it and then she won. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she like allegedly lost her virginity.

[SPEAKER_00]: on her mother's grave. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she kept her dead husband's heart in a drawer. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, okay, so she was a little freak. [SPEAKER_00]: She was like a little freak. [SPEAKER_02]: I like that about her. [SPEAKER_00]: This lady was just annoying. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Mary Shelley is sort of floating in the void. [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I'm a little bit baffled by, well, one, I think the Mary Shelley thing didn't work outside of it being like just an annoying characterization that I think Jesse Buckley did what was on the page and did it well.

[SPEAKER_02]: But it wasn't what was on the page was kind of annoying to like experience as the audience member. [SPEAKER_00]: The people have been saying she's bad in this and it's like, I don't think she's bad. [SPEAKER_00]: I think the character is just bad. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like I was watching and I'm like I don't know how anyone could do this well Yeah, I mean I would say I would say what I'm really confused by is that [SPEAKER_02]: Why does Maggie Jillon Hall believe like I was wondering if this is some sort of like thing people know about Mary Shelley why does Maggie Jillon Hall seem to believe that Mary Shelley didn't feel finished with Frankenstein [SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea because she wrote this a teenager and she lived to a middle age.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: She had many decades where she could have I believe I believe so. [SPEAKER_00]: Let me double check. [SPEAKER_02]: But like, I think I, I give the tear right before this so that I wasn't totally like off base. [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, I know she had a career outside of Frankenstein. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, the way I do think that's kind of projecting like what's like where she couldn't do what she wanted and it's like, I don't think she wanted it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think she wished like I wish I wrote bright a Frankenstein and those 30 years.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right, and then I think that there's something kind of. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I guess on some level, I'll women from that era maybe couldn't do what they wanted in some sense. [SPEAKER_02]: But she was like, wasn't Mary Shelley kind of like privileged. [SPEAKER_02]: She didn't live like, you know, a life of poverty. [SPEAKER_02]: I think she was more educated than most women of her time. [SPEAKER_02]: And Frankenstein was wildly popular. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and so I would say that like a big failure of the Mary Shelley framing of this movie is that This movie assumed I knew more by a graphical details about Mary Shelley than I think the average person would know and You know, I think I'm dorkier than most about like obscure figures and I was like what like is [SPEAKER_02]: this true?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like what is this based on? [SPEAKER_02]: And not that it has to be true, but if it's a framing device using a real person, yeah, it is a little like, what, I didn't know this. [SPEAKER_02]: Is this something people say about her? [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just also like, I didn't understand what purpose that framing device served because when she was possessing Jesse Buckley, [SPEAKER_00]: It seemed they, I feel like they cut a pretty clear line via the voices of when it's Ida versus when it's Mary Shelley.

[SPEAKER_00]: It seems like all the stuff she was doing was Ida again because of the voice, but then Mary Shelley is just shouting words. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like she was not really doing. [SPEAKER_00]: She was really driving the character forward. [SPEAKER_02]: She drove the moments of violence, right?

[SPEAKER_02]: Like it was never Ida that was like grabbing the gun or holding up the whole room. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I just felt like she didn't have that many moments of violence. [SPEAKER_00]: And they wanted to think that she was more violent than she was. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and that that the idea that she inspired so much violence. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh my god there's a rain attack thing just the term rain attack made me like saying brain attack really confused me I had to be honest like because I just was like I don't really understand what the origin of that is in this scene and so then it's a catchphrase.

[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing I think is interesting about this movie is like it's one of those movies where you can feel, you know, studio notes and reshoots really clearly. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Like every scene with Maggie Gillin Hall's husband, um, Peter SARS-Garde, [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, him and Penelope crews are like both really appealing people, like I find them both really endearing. [SPEAKER_02]: I did like their little scenes, but it was like, sorry, what does it do with what is going on?

[SPEAKER_02]: And then like when it's like, nothing, nothing. [SPEAKER_02]: And then when he's like, I am a crooked cop is like, [SPEAKER_02]: But what did you do that was crooked? [SPEAKER_02]: I guess I'm not totally, if you guess with a witness. [SPEAKER_00]: You're an, I guess you're not supposed to do that, but he was a crooked cop would have been someone who was like being paid off by the mob boss. [SPEAKER_00]: And she found out or something. [SPEAKER_00]: That didn't, and maybe that was implied.

[SPEAKER_00]: It didn't, I, I like, I didn't understand that when I was watching. [SPEAKER_00]: Don't think it was. [SPEAKER_00]: I think she was literally just like, you shouldn't sleep with your witnesses. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which, you know, sure. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's good advice. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it is. [SPEAKER_00]: I just like, there's, there's many more crooked things that cops do, especially in the 1930s. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, every time they had Mary Shelley on screen, the whole movie, I was distracted trying to figure out I was like, who does Jesse Buckley look like in her like Mary Shelley drag?

[SPEAKER_00]: And it finally came to me. [SPEAKER_00]: She looks like Jinxman soon in the Omeri costume. [SPEAKER_00]: Specifically. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, yeah, she does look like, oh, Mary, just in general, I think that's so funny when I finally got it's like, yeah, that's it. [SPEAKER_00]: That is specifically it because I was like, oh, Mary, but not like, cool, the skull is so Mary. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, like, yeah, that's really funny.

[SPEAKER_00]: what did you think of the character being so like hyper-sexual when like the character knowing that she was like a witness and like she was being an escort to try to take down the small boss and all that i was like why was she then like completely obsessed with sex [SPEAKER_02]: So you know, I thought that was Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, okay. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that this is like, this conversation is maybe actually revealing how confusing that was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: My read was that like, Mary Shelley has been trapped in the void.

[SPEAKER_02]: And so like in that initial sequence where she's reanimated, she's she now that she's like, I got to go to a club. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: I must dance and she's dancing and it's like extreme and expressive. [SPEAKER_02]: I thought that's all Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: And then it's Aida when there, when something scary happens and he saves her. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's Aida again. [SPEAKER_02]: But then I don't know, like, yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Who maybe likes the answer? [SPEAKER_00]: The Mary Shelley and Ida characters are more intertwined, which I actually would have been fine with if it then weren't for the like just shouting word association, thing all the time. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm wondering if, I mean, I'm wondering if it would have been better if there was a different signifier between the two characters and I don't know what that could have been like someone else's voice like I don't know like I don't really know what it could have been that would have made it more clear.

[SPEAKER_02]: but it was really confusing. [SPEAKER_00]: It's really confusing. [SPEAKER_00]: Also that it's like, there's these, they're like undead, Bonnie and Clyde. [SPEAKER_00]: They're on this crew. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm pretty, they're doing all the stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: Most of the movie, they're just like going to the movies. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: They would have loved Stubbs ALS. [SPEAKER_00]: I can tell you that much. [SPEAKER_02]: the steps a list of 1935. [SPEAKER_00]: They would have really benefited from that.

[SPEAKER_00]: They saw six movies in two weeks. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, first thoughts. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you are right. [SPEAKER_02]: You are right. [SPEAKER_02]: It would have been perfect. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And then the movies also, I, I understood that we were trying to do like a direct parallel between like Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers and then these two monsters and having them. [SPEAKER_02]: It just didn't really work. [SPEAKER_02]: That part didn't really work for me.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was like a visual and a location that was cool to keep anchoring it to. [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it was supposed to have more meaning and it was totally lost on me. [SPEAKER_00]: It really, that was the biggest part to me of the Frankenstein [SPEAKER_00]: Which again, could have been interesting if then she wasn't like so horny for this like kind of like the aesthetic guy we're like Imagine you go on a date with this guy and he's like [SPEAKER_00]: I've seen this movie seven times.

[SPEAKER_00]: You're like, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh [SPEAKER_00]: You're moving saved my life. [SPEAKER_00]: And Glampa was like, hey, that's awesome man, cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then your boyfriend's like, let me dance for you. [SPEAKER_00]: And then like three minutes later, you're like, I would die for this man. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, humiliating. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, listen, I did like that at the party. [SPEAKER_02]: He put a bunch of shrimp in his pocket. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's good, actually. [SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of focused on, I guess in my mind, Frank and Stein wouldn't eat. [SPEAKER_00]: Like undead, reanimated bodies wouldn't eat, but I guess it makes sense that they would.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I mean, I guess I suppose in some fiction, there's on-base, right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I guess, I don't know the rules. [SPEAKER_00]: That's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: The rules of any of this. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll allow them to eat. [SPEAKER_00]: I'll allow them to have their little shrimp Ease.

[SPEAKER_02]: Another thing it reminded me of was just the musical Chicago. [SPEAKER_02]: I wish it was more like the musical Chicago, you wouldn't think it would have been, yeah, I wonder if it had more, you know, I know there were a lot of news stories and I thought a news article from exactly one year ago like this month that was like the bride was supposed to come out and now it's being pushed a full year. [SPEAKER_02]: And it had bad test screenings and I think that the bigger fear was actually Guillermo del Toro's Frankenstein.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_02]: But it was like, from what I understand, it was a really troubled shoot. [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the right answer is, but it is always so painfully obvious when it was really terrible. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, there was just like really like disjointed about it. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, like nothing ever quite added up to more than the sum of its parts. [SPEAKER_02]: Definitely. [SPEAKER_02]: And still, you know, it was, it was like enough shiny objects on screen that I was like having fun the whole time I was watching it.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, as much as I don't think the tone was nailed, I did like the costumes and makeup. [SPEAKER_02]: The costumes and makeup were really fun. [SPEAKER_02]: I think the like splatter was cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I like that a lot. [SPEAKER_00]: I wish this was a better movie so that I could do that for Halloween. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, the whole thing's a cool look. [SPEAKER_02]: The like the way the hair is like up on one side. [SPEAKER_00]: bleached eyebrows. [SPEAKER_00]: I like the dress when it was sort of like ripped to kind of show the bra.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that the costume designer was Sandy Powell, who has done some other really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Like she's she's really good. [SPEAKER_00]: So like it made sense. [SPEAKER_00]: And like the way frank and science clothes were like [SPEAKER_00]: really old and 30, but like in a very lived-in way, and I did think definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: She did's the 20, I think, 15 live-action Cinderella, which I think has some of like the most amazing costume. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, no, the makeup and hair was good too.

[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, he really, I liked how disgusting he looked like the staples in the head. [SPEAKER_00]: And when she was trying to give him a blow job, [SPEAKER_00]: I did in that empty pool. [SPEAKER_00]: I did have to be like visceral reaction, like how absolutely rank that dick would be, because even normal human men don't have the hygiene a lot of the time for their dicks to be in good shape. [SPEAKER_00]: And he's, [SPEAKER_00]: just like a pile of like rotting flesh with a bunch of like open wounds.

[SPEAKER_00]: And he doesn't have like regular access to a to a bathroom. [SPEAKER_02]: And like am I am I remembering right it was like you could there was like a like stapled together like right above it as she's like. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's, it is, I also kind of felt like this is going to be cropped. [SPEAKER_00]: But then I was like, I do kind of want, I, I kind of thought they were going to show it for a second. [SPEAKER_00]: I, I didn't want to see what Frankenstein dick looked like. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm going to be honest with you.

[SPEAKER_02]: It was a big year for hog on screen. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you. [SPEAKER_00]: He is and it's like I would like to see if like I think would be interesting if it was like piece together There was like two for the tube and then like a different one for the balls But like I just think I would like to see what they do with that and it's like you're already showing me it's disgusting Let's just go for it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and I mean if I'm not I have to imagine It was already like hard to get this one over the finish line.

[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure if it's

[SPEAKER_02]: A disgusting green Frankenstein dick on screen that'll slide down the process. [SPEAKER_01]: The test screen is not going to be well.

[SPEAKER_00]: What if all of the notes were like more Frankenstein dick? [SPEAKER_00]: What if the reason they were all bad is like, we want to just we wanted to see it. [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is also, it is just so funny that like, I wish they had that in it and more gross stuff, which I know that she said in interviews that she like was pulled away from some of the gross stuff and that the studio came in and was like, you can't show this. [SPEAKER_02]: You can't show that. [SPEAKER_02]: I think with these like big budget, [SPEAKER_02]: you know, IP products, it sucks when they have to pull them away from what would make them a piece of genre storytelling, like leaning into the nasty stuff.

[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, this is like nasty visceral situation that they're in. [SPEAKER_02]: They are corpses. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, they are corpses in love.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and especially with her, it's like, I get that she's not pieced together and like, yeah, but it's like, there's kind of No aside from the fact that her hair and brows got bleached, which good for her because it seemed like she was bleaching her hair on her own, but now she doesn't have to worry about that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it kind of seemed like there were almost no repercussions of being dead in the ground and then reanimated, except for like, it was almost the same as if somebody just was a normal human but had like amnesia.

[SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Otherwise, like, she was actually in great health. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Because like, she was possessed by a ghost before that. [SPEAKER_02]: So she's already at her own set of props. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like maybe if it was like, oh Mary Shelley took the opportunity of this woman being reanimated to possess her like, okay, but it's like, it kind of just seemed like, oh, okay, I guess you're going to just kind of like reanimate someone with like pretty much no repercussions.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's like, that's cool. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, it's something I'm thinking about now that the movie is I like obviously this movie has gotten incredibly mixed reviews and when I was watching it I was thinking this is really going to be one of those like, I mean, I don't think anyone thinks the story is like perfect, but I also think a big weird swing is good and like I like that a woman was handed $100 million to make something fucking weird. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm always in favor of a big swing.

[SPEAKER_00]: I wish it looked like a hundred million dollars though. [SPEAKER_02]: I wish it did too, but but it had the same cinematographer as the Joker, so it was always going to be weird and gray.

[SPEAKER_02]: um, which is also funny. [SPEAKER_02]: It all has the same same cinematographer and same composer as the joker. [SPEAKER_01]: Interesting. [SPEAKER_02]: The like, the like, those are two major vibe creators in a movie, right? [SPEAKER_02]: So I can see why those are the immediate parallels. [SPEAKER_02]: But um, [SPEAKER_02]: As I've seen the reviews come out and I thought like I wonder if this is going to be one of those like the girls who get it get it kind of things I have seen quite a gender divide in even like the openness to What the movie was attempting or not like I've seen a lot of like male reviewers be like just say it was bad.

[SPEAKER_02]: It's bad And I've seen a lot of women be like I get the idea

[SPEAKER_02]: But you know what it, I've never really considered until now. [SPEAKER_02]: I think because Maggie Gillen Hall is a, is a person that I just think is kind of interesting and smart and sensitive is like, what must it feel like to have, like, you so you made a hundred million dollar movie that I think the budget had, like, went up when they were doing research. [SPEAKER_02]: It's probably made it up to 200 million, you know what I mean?

[SPEAKER_02]: And it's coming out and you know, it's not that good and you have to go into all these interviews and talk to people and you know these interviews are going to live forever like you maybe don't want to sound like you have to sell the movie so you have to sound enthusiastic, but you also live in reality and maybe you're like, [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we tried. [SPEAKER_02]: I just can't imagine how that must feel. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it'd have to go out and be like, and be like, this movie is exactly what I wanted it to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm really proud of it. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's going to really make an impact.

[SPEAKER_02]: It definitely went the way I envisioned. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think I'm not having a weird time trying to promote this. [SPEAKER_02]: Even the origin story she said of coming to making this movie, which was in that period of time. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, which I watched after you sent it to me. [SPEAKER_02]: It is interesting to me that the origin is, I made a movie for $5 million for Netflix during COVID [SPEAKER_02]: and it was very successful and now incoming to her was I am being pitched IP and I saw a guy with a brighter Frankenstein tattoo and thought oh that's weird maybe I'll talk about that like it just is so clear I know authenticity is like overused but it's so clear that this was sort of like an inauthentic [SPEAKER_02]: And that is what results, I think, in a movie that's like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I don't think like. [SPEAKER_00]: you should be opening talking about it by being like, well, I'd never read Frankenstein. [SPEAKER_00]: I'd never seen the bride of Frankenstein. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really know anything about either. [SPEAKER_00]: I didn't know anything about Mary Shelley. [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, then I saw a guy with a tattoo. [SPEAKER_02]: And I wasn't seeking this type of thing out. [SPEAKER_02]: Studios pitched it to me. [SPEAKER_02]: It was the only thing I was being offered, which is like, not quite what she said, but close enough that I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: then we'll go after this.

[SPEAKER_00]: The thing is, too, I think doing like a modern brighter Frankenstein is a great idea. [SPEAKER_02]: Totally. [SPEAKER_00]: This just wasn't a good version of it, because it's almost like she had another movie in mind that she then projected onto the Frankenstein. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Because, like, [SPEAKER_00]: Ultimately, none of this really needs him to be Frankenstein or heard to be reanimated. [SPEAKER_00]: And it wouldn't be a good movie, regardless. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it would be so boring if they weren't that.

[SPEAKER_00]: That's the only point of interest. [SPEAKER_00]: But it's like, it doesn't... [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: It just like, it should have more of an impact that these two people are dead. [SPEAKER_00]: You know, especially the fact that like bullets affect them just like anyone else. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm kind of like, oh, so we established that Frank has been alive for over a hundred years. [SPEAKER_00]: No one in that time has effectively hit him over the head or shot him with one bullet.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and also, he goes to the movies all the time, and that's his only relationship. [SPEAKER_02]: Like, that is how Maggie has framed it in interviews. [SPEAKER_02]: The only relationship is to the pictures on the screen. [SPEAKER_02]: But if it's in 1935, movies have existed for, like, a very small percentage of his life. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: What was he doing? [SPEAKER_02]: So there's 70 years that are on account of four of me. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I would just think that, like, [SPEAKER_00]: If they're going to set up that he's been alive for over a hundred years, that does kind of imply that someone would maybe get a little bit, I understand that he doesn't have human relationships, but someone that would be a little more like smart or worldly or have some perspective, just of like, oh, I've seen a hundred, a hundred, ten years of the world go by.

[SPEAKER_02]: you know, like with vampire stuff, that's an implication, you know, and then it's like an important thing that shapes the perspective of the character. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but he's very, he's very male loneliness epidemic in a very like almost modern way. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I mean, I wonder. [SPEAKER_02]: If this wasn't, if like, maybe it was just a general idea to have like a female vigilante movie.

[SPEAKER_02]: And then they were like, you have to fit that into IP. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And she's like, okay, right, if I guess not. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess in that case, I wish she had done more of the vigilanteism. [SPEAKER_02]: Right, who charges her or something in the in the party. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but she just kind of like freaks out and is that and then is like whoops and then she does bite that guy's tongue out, but Frank is the one who shoots him in the other guy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: And Like don't you feel like she should have gone and killed that mob boss guy like [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or something. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know sheep. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess that's that's a that was goes back to my issue of the telling not showing is there presenting her is this like. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, vigilante who like kills bad men, but it's like I'm not seeing that. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I understood the presentation of her and the her effect on other people to be that like she used her voice in that party.

[SPEAKER_02]: And that was the catalyst that inspired women all over the. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Then be vigilantees, but her herself, she would just, yeah, she seemed to just be trying to exist. [SPEAKER_02]: I shouldn't. [SPEAKER_02]: Mary Shelley seemed mad. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: but she wasn't but also I'm also wondering this made me realize why does Mary Shelley specifically hate this one gangster specifically good point that's a good point why did never thought about that before yeah like why does Mary Shelley from the void know so much about um the politics of the mob in 1935 shakago [SPEAKER_02]: and she knows this one guy is really bad, it's like, I wonder why that caught her interest and you know, it's like, I, I want to flag that like, I'm not, I'm not someone who like enjoys nitpicking genre, it's just that.

[SPEAKER_02]: Like things were presented in a way that led to these natural, like, wait, why does that happen? [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, I think as the filmmaker and as the writer, you have to consider that, like if you present that Frank has been around for a hundred years, and you present that his only relationship is movie characters, [SPEAKER_02]: It, I'm not being like, pedantic to be like, what was he doing for the first 70? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because it's like there's I feel like there was stuff where it's like if I was someone who enjoyed nitpicking like yeah I could like there were consistency issues with like smudge lipstick or whatever I don't care about that kind of stuff but it's just like the possessions seemed literally very important to the plot or like it was supposed to be.

[SPEAKER_00]: And so just in that case, it needs to make sense because then like at the party, when she was saying all those things, it seemed like she was being like possessed with the knowledge of like every murdered woman ever. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, and it's like, wait, so what's She's shelly is God. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it just and it's like, yeah, I wouldn't care about the rules if I wasn't literally like distracted by being confused. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, and, and that is really the core issue, um, in thinking about like the issues of the movie, do you have a suggestion for what would have, like what element could be removed to fix it, to fix it, mean the entire possession thing, Mary Shelley get her out of there, [SPEAKER_00]: I think just in general, like, I wish there was more, I wish it was either more like Bonnie and Clyde and there was more like no, we're like on a spree, we're killing bad guys or whatever, or that there was like more pathos.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think that's, I think that's right. [SPEAKER_02]: I agree with the Get Mary Shelley out of there. [SPEAKER_02]: No, she's not necessary. [SPEAKER_02]: The paythers is interesting because it is like if you're gonna, if you are going to evoke Romeo and Juliet and Bonnie and Clyde,

[SPEAKER_02]: then it has it you need to have it needs to be stronger that the like the the way the story is being told needs to be stronger because those are stories where it's like these are the origin stories of iconography essentially and you just you simply need that [SPEAKER_02]: If you're trying to like anchor it to like some real people's stories, it's just Yeah, I think a lot of effort needs to go into it. [SPEAKER_02]: My my take on actually had to fix it is like No Frank at all. [SPEAKER_02]: I know that she's called the guide.

[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, we get the love story out of their entire home And it is just a lady vigilante who is A Frankenstein of herself over own. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, what like why not? [SPEAKER_00]: Because he was just [SPEAKER_00]: I really thought his character as a love interest, like the entire movie, I was as much as I didn't like her character either. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I was feeling very like how it feels when you have a friend that you really want to break up with their loser boy friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like the entire time I was like, girl, leave him. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, [SPEAKER_00]: He's just like, he's ugly, which would be okay. [SPEAKER_00]: It could even be kind of if he was like, cool. [SPEAKER_00]: That could be his charm, but he's kind of pathetic, but he's also jealous. [SPEAKER_00]: Like when he's like, did you fuck him? [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, you took her out of a grave from the dead. [SPEAKER_00]: You're jealous of a, are you kidding me? [SPEAKER_02]: I totally forgot about that part.

[SPEAKER_00]: That was crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: He's jealous and not really like, did you fuck him? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: He's like manipulative. [SPEAKER_00]: He's a liar. [SPEAKER_00]: He is a passenger princess the entire time. [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you've been around a hundred. [SPEAKER_00]: You were around when cars were invented. [SPEAKER_00]: You never learned to drive. [SPEAKER_00]: You can't take the wheel on some of these road trips. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I do think he's not funny, not smart.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hate this, yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: And lately about the jealousy part because it's really short, but it is like, excuse me, it's like, are you fucking serious right now? [SPEAKER_02]: This person literally lived an entire life before you met them. [SPEAKER_02]: They know, I, the duration of their life. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like you're currently lying to her telling her that she chose you. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think what it is. [SPEAKER_00]: And you don't even know her name. [SPEAKER_00]: And he literally, I think in that scene is like, Oh, Ida.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, bitch, you didn't know her name. [SPEAKER_00]: And you just gave her a fake name. [SPEAKER_00]: And now you're mad that someone knows her actual name. [SPEAKER_00]: Are you kidding me?

[SPEAKER_02]: Sorry to someone cared about her at some point, must be hard for you, um, yeah, that's crazy, and I didn't flag it, but that is insane. [SPEAKER_02]: I think if the Frankenstein, so if Franken's going to be a character, it's like he either needed to be way more sympathetic, empathetic, we feel very sad, because I felt sad for him in parts, and then I also felt annoyed with him in parts, [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think I felt sad for him, but in the way you feel sad for like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_00]: It literally, where it's like, no, you're, you are like, your life is sad and you are like a sad in selling it doesn't make me sad, but not in a way where like, I think you like deserve someone to be with you. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, no, you do need to work on yourself before that. [SPEAKER_02]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, meant men will literally re-animate your corpse out of the poppers grave, or they'll go to therapy.

[SPEAKER_02]: Men will literally walk the earth for a hundred years and not work on themselves.

[SPEAKER_02]: Just kidding, sorry, men, we love you.

[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know how the laws are changing. [SPEAKER_02]: I went when you're listening to this. [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's really funny. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm over it. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't ever need to think about this movie again. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I feel like there were some things that annoyed me in a way that did just stick with me where I'm just like, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Why did they have it end with like, they are in love, they are so in love. [SPEAKER_00]: It should have ended with her like driving away on her own or something.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I just, and then also her being like, I'm not the bride of Frank and Stine or I don't or Penny, I'm the bride and it's like, okay, well, that actually doesn't make sense. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, we can just apply, you know, we can just project whatever marriage we want on to you. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like, I, that doesn't really make sense. [SPEAKER_00]: You're like, I'm so independent that I'm the bride and it's like, well, that's kind of the opposite.

[SPEAKER_00]: And that also just, [SPEAKER_02]: to be like a fun house mirror of a bride? [SPEAKER_02]: Is that maybe the I'm trying to think of what they'd like actual goal or like what the message was of that? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean it wasn't there wasn't a lot of information because she delivered that via the fourth and final knock-knock joke of the movie. [SPEAKER_00]: We just wouldn't like okay am I missing like was Mary Shelley like famously a huge fan of knock-knock jokes or [SPEAKER_00]: I don't, I say, no, no, I mean, she's just in the car alone going knock knock, who's there, the bride.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's like I think there were a lot of things she did where I was like, oh no, is that supposed to be cool? [SPEAKER_00]: Are we supposed to think that's cool? [SPEAKER_00]: That's not cool. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think there's a lot of misfires in terms of like Something that's maybe supposed to be funny or cool in the movie and it just just like doesn't it just doesn't land. [SPEAKER_02]: They just did not stick the landing on anything. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: No, I do.

[SPEAKER_00]: Project. [SPEAKER_00]: And I wouldn't care. [SPEAKER_00]: I wouldn't be like mad that this exists. [SPEAKER_00]: Except that it probably means that we won't anytime soon get another modern, write a Frankenstein movie that's actually fun and cool and good. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, you know, I've never had one in my lifetime. [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you guys. [SPEAKER_02]: That's true. [SPEAKER_02]: Me neither. [SPEAKER_02]: And so, you know, oh, well, I guess we have another. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it's just the same as it was before.

[SPEAKER_02]: Unless I guess is the corpse bride supposed to be a bride or I've never considered this before at all. [SPEAKER_02]: So this is a thought I'm having for the first time. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think so. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess she's sort of a female Frankenstein except there's it's more magic than science. [SPEAKER_00]: Like that's all that magic and like underworld, whereas I feel like Frankenstein has to be very like it's science. [SPEAKER_02]: I did like a netbennings cookie doctor.

[SPEAKER_02]: I see that I just think a netbenning decides she wants to make her own Frankenstein after reading a book about the original Frankenstein and she makes this lady and then this lady becomes a vigilante and she helps hide her. [SPEAKER_02]: That's the version you can do if you want. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like she was really [SPEAKER_00]: put in her all into what she was given and I did, I liked, I think the one thing I actually thought was funny was, I can't even remember what it was, but it was something that her assistance that I liked the assistant.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh yeah, I liked the assistant too. [SPEAKER_02]: And I, I also kind of like, I did, I liked the mischievous nature of the bride in the beginning where she's like, [SPEAKER_02]: What she's saying, I really rather not or something, and she's like knocking stuff off the table. [SPEAKER_02]: The characterization of her as like a bad little feline is kind of fun. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and it goes away immediately after that scene, but I didn't really like that scene. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know what that scene reminded me of that I just thought did it way better is is poor things.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that poor things did I know a lot of people have turned on poor things. [SPEAKER_00]: I still really like it. [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, I it is a it is a black hole in my, oh, in my viewing. [SPEAKER_02]: I have not seen it. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, wow. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, yeah, that's why I reacted that way. [SPEAKER_00]: Or things is essentially like a that that kind of is without like the the murder and stuff but that is where someone kind of just makes essentially a female Frankenstein and then she's let let loose you know and kind of does her think it starts to sort of a blank slate where she was a woman but now she has no memories or remnants of that woman you know.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, starts out with like a scientist in the house is kind of like, you know, just stuff like that, and then yeah, is set loose and I just truly think and she's also like she is also loves to fuck or whatever, but like I think that that is such a more interesting version of like, okay, well, what can this like blank slate woman like [SPEAKER_00]: who's kind of unbound by societal rules at this point. [SPEAKER_00]: What can she do? [SPEAKER_00]: What can she become? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think that's like a much better version of it than this. [SPEAKER_00]: I also did, again, I like Jessie Buckley so much. [SPEAKER_00]: I kind of felt maybe because she was trying to do the two different voices. [SPEAKER_00]: The, the Ida character was kind of reminding me of like, you know, universal studios. [SPEAKER_00]: Those like walk around character actors that are in an actual character, they're just sort of like 1930s New Yorker. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: I was kind of giving that for me.

[SPEAKER_00]: And it also, you so send help right? [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, you know, how like a funny thing of like Rachel Neg Adams character is that that character like loves speaking and like idioms. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's always saying idioms. [SPEAKER_00]: I felt like this was accidentally doing that. [SPEAKER_00]: Like it was like a joke and send help. [SPEAKER_00]: But I feel like Ida was like, I can't remember what they were, but like at the

[SPEAKER_02]: My God, embarrassing. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, hello, we're back. [SPEAKER_02]: We wouldn't be a first episode out the gate without a bunch of technical issues right in the middle of a sentence. [SPEAKER_00]: It was just one little baby one and now we're back problem solved and we have another one more important thing to discuss this is I've been waiting for this the entire time.

[SPEAKER_00]: we're in net vending is allowed to reanimate them and they're a little thingy's twitch and then monster mash starts playing and I'm not joking when I say this. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm saying this and like I'm actually very serious. [SPEAKER_00]: It was my favorite choice of the entire movie. [SPEAKER_02]: That's, I was just thinking, I didn't critically analyze that at all when it happened. [SPEAKER_02]: I just was like, oh, that's funny and walked out of the theater. [SPEAKER_02]: But now I'm thinking, that is the tone.

[SPEAKER_02]: The whole movie needed to have. [SPEAKER_00]: Exactly. [SPEAKER_00]: So it's like right as it's ending, I'm like, oh, now we're getting somewhere. [SPEAKER_02]: Now we nail the fucking tone. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, took the whole movie to get everything to be monster mash. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it still could have had the emotional resonance of some sort of feminist story and all that other shit if it was a little funny. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, which which the monster mash moment solidifies that like, oh, this could have been a little funny and then it would have been more fun.

[SPEAKER_02]: I think with a big movie, I think they are better when they're a little funny. [SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely, like a little funny, a little just like

[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know, there's, there's a self-awareness in being a little funny person is when you take yourself so seriously, the stuff you want to be serious almost is less serious because you're not zoomed out enough. [SPEAKER_00]: You're not seeing the big picture where if you're seeing the big picture enough for it to be like a little fun, a little funny, usually everything hits harder. [SPEAKER_02]: totally, I totally agree. [SPEAKER_02]: Um, and I don't think it, I really don't think it would have undermined anything to be a little funny.

[SPEAKER_02]: Oh no, we're having technical issues again. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, we had one more technical difficulties so close to the finish line that we're back. [SPEAKER_02]: The last thing I just wanted to say is that despite everything we just said, I will see Maggie Jill and Hall's next movie. [SPEAKER_02]: I'm like still very interested in what she has to say as a director and a writer. [SPEAKER_02]: I just think she thrives better maybe with adaptation that is more direct like the Elena Ferante book for lost daughter or Or she could maybe would benefit from like a writing partner someone who like she bounces off of or I don't know You know, I don't mean to give her advice [SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, like I feel like I get that she's like, I want to make a big budget thing as a woman or yeah, but I do think that maybe she's better at like more specific things.

[SPEAKER_02]: like something that is, you know, I mean, we're saying this in the in the background of Warner Bros. being sold and like who got only knows what the fucking reality of big studio pictures is even gonna be. [SPEAKER_02]: I personally prefer interesting Indies to big studio pictures anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: So I, I'm really interested. [SPEAKER_02]: I know she, I know that there is an observation to be made about like they don't give women a lot of money and you have to make these weird little indies.

[SPEAKER_02]: But sorry, those are more interesting anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: Honestly, yeah, and it's like sometimes money actually sometimes too much money can sort of like. [SPEAKER_00]: Inderavision almost like I completely agree. [SPEAKER_00]: I think some people with a lot of money can make something really incredible and some people may be the constraints are good for them and perhaps she's one of those people. [SPEAKER_02]: Totally and I think that's fine and I'm kind of like that, you know, it's like fine, it's cool, it's good.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I think ultimately, I thought the movie was a bad movie. [SPEAKER_00]: I did think it was bad at being a movie, but I didn't hate watching it. [SPEAKER_00]: I wasn't like mad. [SPEAKER_00]: I saw it. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I had a fun time while it was happening. [SPEAKER_02]: And I will not think about it again beyond releasing this episode. [SPEAKER_02]: I think it's like not a movie that's gonna stick with me. [SPEAKER_02]: Which is fine. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Hey, I don't know that like it has a lot of rewatchability.

[SPEAKER_02]: No. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: Well, thanks for listening. [SPEAKER_02]: Y'all. [SPEAKER_00]: That was our first episode of Thank You. [SPEAKER_00]: Very much if you stuck around till now. [SPEAKER_00]: And we just want to say that we're watching Undertown next week. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: and we'll be releasing every Monday from now until I guess forever. [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, until until we, you know, until World War III takes over at the land invasion of US. [SPEAKER_02]: Okay. [SPEAKER_02]: If you know, it does feel, you know, if I may actually just voice that it feels fucking insane to be [SPEAKER_02]: that's like we are the aggressors in international relations and everyone's like worried about war it feels crazy so just acknowledging that we know it's insane but we still go to the movies every week you know during wartime you unfortunately still have to live your life um so you know good luck everybody so here we are

[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, that was our conversation about the bride. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for listening. [SPEAKER_02]: If you enjoyed this episode, I have one small favor to ask. [SPEAKER_02]: Will you text this episode to a friend? [SPEAKER_02]: Maybe you have a movie buddy, long distance bestie, co-worker you like talking about movies with, I don't know, text it to them. [SPEAKER_02]: It really helps spread the word about the podcast to have these one-on-one recommendations. [SPEAKER_02]: If you'd like to follow us online, you can find us on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube, and Patreon.

[SPEAKER_02]: Next week we'll be talking about the movie Undertone. [SPEAKER_02]: So hurry up and see it that weekend so you can listen on Monday when we drop the new episode. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for listening and have a great day. [SPEAKER_02]: media and literature was created and produced by Monica Scott and Emily Fay. [SPEAKER_02]: Our theme music was composed by Christian Larson and Technical Health is from Alex Luchin. [SPEAKER_02]: Thank you so much for listening and we will see you at the movies.

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