Obsession

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm in my car after seeing obsession and I loved it so much and I think that even though there's a little bit of gore you're gonna like it too because it's about a loser who ruins [SPEAKER_00]: OK, just saw obsession walking back to my car. [SPEAKER_00]: Gotta say, I'm sending you my therapy bill for how upsetting this was.

[SPEAKER_00]: Hello, welcome to medium literate at the show where two long time best friends try to improve their media literacy skills by having a long conversation about a new movie and theaters each week. [SPEAKER_00]: My name is Monica Scott, my co-host is Emily Fay and we've got a doozy we're doing a session this week by Curry Barker. [SPEAKER_00]: So I'm going to tell you right up top. [SPEAKER_00]: We had some issues kind of throughout this whole thing, but the first 30 minutes of Emily's audio aren't quite perfect, so take off your perfectionist goggles and chill out.

[SPEAKER_00]: It gets better 30 minutes in, but yeah, I'm so sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: we simply had a few technical snafos. [SPEAKER_00]: If you're listening to the audio of this program, then I just am here to remind you that we do have a YouTube channel, where you could see my face saying these words right now. [SPEAKER_00]: It's medium-literate on YouTube. [SPEAKER_00]: And without any further ado, here is a spirited conversation about obsession.

[SPEAKER_00]: I took a real swing with my outfit today, and I don't know how I feel about it.

[SPEAKER_00]: I try, I'm trying something. [SPEAKER_00]: I went to the vintage store. [SPEAKER_01]: Ooh. [SPEAKER_00]: I got a little 90s dress that I didn't even wear to the 90s party anyway. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have. [SPEAKER_00]: Hello. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, honestly, the vibe is similar because the way I'm shaped is like... [SPEAKER_00]: It's... [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's middle age or just... [SPEAKER_00]: my boob size but it really looks crazy on camera. [SPEAKER_00]: That's why I'm often wearing something loose because I'm like this is a bit we're about to go and pop now.

[SPEAKER_01]: They're they're owes for obsession.

[SPEAKER_00]: What it is fellas. [SPEAKER_00]: So hey hello welcome. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, if it works for Sidney Sweeney, she is the audience we want, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah! [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, wait. [SPEAKER_01]: We looked at the numbers and we said, okay, I think right-wing, whore-ney, middle-american men are our audience that's going untapped here. [SPEAKER_00]: Listen, I'm going to push back and say I think there are a lot of men in Orange County California who I suppose to really are into what she's doing.

[SPEAKER_00]: And listen, we didn't mean to start with the Sydney Swingy eight corner again, but we are not friends with her. [SPEAKER_00]: No, she's not her friend. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so listen, we're doing it. [SPEAKER_00]: We're talking about obsession. [SPEAKER_01]: We're talking about obsession and the the one. [SPEAKER_01]: Apple podcast commenter who said they're here for Monica's anti-horror takes is eating good this week because right we are coming at this from different angles [SPEAKER_00]: We have different feelings about this movie.

[SPEAKER_01]: There might be screaming, there might be crying. [SPEAKER_00]: I think we should start with the positive. [SPEAKER_00]: So Emily, what did you think of this movie? [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I loved obsession. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's where I'm coming from. [SPEAKER_01]: So I look, the whole podcast is going to be like, I can't even like list my positives because it's. [SPEAKER_01]: I just, I saw this movie, I ended up seeing it twice, and we're recording this on the Sunday after, really.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so you saw it, did you see it Thursday and Friday? [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that would happen. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I didn't necessarily came to, but I saw it Thursday, so first night. [SPEAKER_01]: And then I just ended up seeing it with a friend on Friday and Dolby, and with like a Q&A at the Grove. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, and that's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: That sounds, I mean, listen, sound was a major part of this movie [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I also, it was, because I, it was just so sold out the first night that I had to see it and just like, you know, normal format.

[SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Which I thought would be fine, and I mean, it was, but this is such a visually like, there's so much, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: It's such a dark movie in terms of like shadows and almost the whole thing is kind of in darkness that I thought that maybe Dolby would be kind of interesting. [SPEAKER_00]: And was it? [SPEAKER_01]: I have to imagine it was like, I feel like there were some things that I could see better. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, because in Dolby, you know, like true black is more contrasted versus like, uh, gray black, where that all kind of blends together more and like normal.

[SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I feel like this is just such a shadowy, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely, you know, seeing this movie, I saw this at a different AMC than I normally go to. [SPEAKER_00]: There's like a big, there's two AMCs near me. [SPEAKER_00]: I want to give you the breakdown of the Chicago suburb AMCs. [SPEAKER_00]: There's two AMCs that are like kind of equidistant from me. [SPEAKER_00]: There's one that is like big multiplex in a strip mall, like clearly the anchor of the strip mall.

[SPEAKER_00]: haven't, they haven't fixed anything since like 2003. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, okay. [SPEAKER_01]: So no reminders or anything. [SPEAKER_00]: There's one theater with, there too. [SPEAKER_00]: There's the Dolby theater and then one theater with recliners. [SPEAKER_00]: There's no, like, like, half the lights don't work in the hallways when you're walking to theater. [SPEAKER_00]: Those, those signs that say like, those little like LED signs to say what movie is playing in what room don't work.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's just like, you know, every theater now. [SPEAKER_01]: I, I'll be curious about your other I am seeing no theaters here have that anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: I think to avoid people theater hopping. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's interesting. [SPEAKER_01]: So no theater anymore that I have been to in the past few years has what movies playing. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, my other AMC is just a newer one. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, the structure is different. [SPEAKER_00]: It's got the like. [SPEAKER_00]: kind of more, you know, it sucks, but like a more gray hallway with the LED.

[SPEAKER_00]: The AMC's will sometimes do the thing where it's like an LED strip that goes up the wall up across the ceiling and down and it's like a corridor sort of gorgeous. [SPEAKER_00]: But it all the rooms are nicer, the seats are nicer, but here's what I realized. [SPEAKER_00]: When I saw Hokem, [SPEAKER_00]: It was just a normal screening, but early in the day, and I felt like the screen was so dark, but I also noticed while I was watching it, that one row of lights in the ceiling were still on but kind of but mostly dim.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I was like, oh, did they always do that? [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm never, I'm just noticing. [SPEAKER_00]: And then I went to this, I am seeing, I was like, no, that other AMC fucking sucks. [SPEAKER_01]: Did you accidentally go to a morning baby friendly screening of Hokeham where there were no babies? [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I don't know because with the lights, I noticed it also when I saw exit eight, which is also horror. [SPEAKER_00]: And I noticed that the lights were like on but really dim in just like one row in the front.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I was like, is this like a theater that has a elderly people? [SPEAKER_00]: Like I just couldn't figure out why they were doing it. [SPEAKER_01]: The person whose job it is to man that one strip of lights doesn't come into like new in every theater Yeah, every single one job Yeah, it's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I have no Goldilocks theater near me like I kind of there's one I like for the vibes There's one I like because like the big multiplex is often playing the movies I can't see at the other one so it's just like [SPEAKER_00]: There just ends up being the one I have to go to.

[SPEAKER_00]: My favorite is a landmark theater near us because it used to be an arc light and it's just got this like, It's just got a nicer feel. [SPEAKER_00]: It's in a really weird mall that used to be like an Air Force piece. [SPEAKER_00]: So there's like a weird department store in the old like control tower. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the air traffic control tower. [SPEAKER_00]: But that landmark also mainly has old people and families that go there so the volume is always incredibly low on every movie and it drives me insane.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's that would make me feel crazy. [SPEAKER_00]: So you like you can't see like something that's supposed to be really immersing there like you can't see like doing or something that because it would be like okay like and I barely hear that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I also kind of, you know, if there's a movie where there's a lot of just sort of talking and maybe like not really loud chatter. [SPEAKER_01]: I imagine that's annoying too, because you're probably like, like, what? [SPEAKER_00]: I saw the drama there and I was like, this is fine for this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I think there's, we saw Hamlet there. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, there are movies that you can kind of see there that like, [SPEAKER_00]: It's you can sort of give or take, right? [SPEAKER_00]: It's like you're either getting the shitty multiplex or this experience. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, sometimes it depends on like who's playing what or what we want to eat for dinner before or after. [SPEAKER_00]: But anyway, all that to say, this was definitely a better like horror viewing experience because they turned off all the [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I didn't know that was happening when I saw Hokem But yes, so I'm here to be the hater of the pod.

[SPEAKER_00]: I hated this movie So much and I'm gonna caveat this with like a million things because I had never heard of Curry Barker before Did you have any relation to who he was not at all? [SPEAKER_00]: I think that the movement that's happening right now with YouTubers making studio release pictures or not, I mean, even I think the Markiplier Iron Lung thing is really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I did you follow that at all. [SPEAKER_01]: I am just, I feel like I've mentioned this before, I could not be less of a YouTube person.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, if there's a YouTuber, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never spoken from YouTube. [SPEAKER_01]: But yeah, Monica handles all the YouTube stuff by the way. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't even know there were like shorts on there. [SPEAKER_01]: But I, I've never been a YouTube person, so it's like, I don't know any of these YouTube people. [SPEAKER_01]: We are in, yeah, we're a specific year of like, there's just a lot of YouTubers making specifically horror movies.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Two years maybe. [SPEAKER_00]: I certainly don't think that's a hundred percent hit rate, but I think it's a cool door into the industry and I think because like we are comedy people, right? [SPEAKER_00]: There was a few years there, where that was the pipeline into comedy. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's... [SPEAKER_01]: I think it's into comedy. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know. [SPEAKER_00]: Comedy is a dying art anyway, but... [SPEAKER_00]: But like...

[SPEAKER_00]: I actually think it's really cool and interesting and I'm always going to be like way more enthusiastic about people who don't have a traditional pipeline into the industry and so they make their own stuff and get noticed that way. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the Markiplier thing was really cool because he's like an extremely famous YouTuber. [SPEAKER_00]: And I've never, I like didn't know who he was until he started to become a like TikTok cap cut template. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I think that is literally how I was introduced to him was like, there's a famous cap cut like green screen template where it's him going like, [SPEAKER_00]: This right here, this is my favorite thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: There's no thing I like more than this thing or something like that. [SPEAKER_00]: And it's like funny and you put a clip of the office behind it or whatever. [SPEAKER_00]: Stupid picture of your cat, but he has been making YouTube videos for so long. [SPEAKER_00]: He completely self-funded his movie and his fans called theaters and got it placed. [SPEAKER_00]: And I just think that's amazing. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think that Curry Barker being from Alabama, not having any entryway into the industry, just making his own stuff and having that be the, like how he got in and got to release this movie.

[SPEAKER_00]: And hearing him talk up, you know, I listened to a couple of interviews because I wanted to understand the movie better after I was like, die eight this. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I, so it's like, it's tough. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm having like a reverse art from artist where I'm like, [SPEAKER_00]: I really respect what he does and what he's doing, and I think it's really cool, and from the reaction horror people are having, he did a good job, I think, but I'm not a horror person, but I can like horror, and so to me if a movie like crashes and burns with me to the degree that this did, [SPEAKER_00]: I eat is could be a sign of its inability to reach crossover success.

[SPEAKER_01]: See, I'm almost coming from the opposite point of view because I have no, even though I guess theoretically, I'm like, yeah, it's cool people coming from outside, whatever. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I wouldn't say I have like any more respect for people coming in as a YouTuber. [SPEAKER_01]: YouTubers. [SPEAKER_01]: And. [SPEAKER_01]: Ikey or something. [SPEAKER_00]: I careful. [SPEAKER_00]: I careful. [SPEAKER_00]: You're currently one again. [SPEAKER_00]: I know. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: I. [SPEAKER_00]: Like the language, I think I get what you're meaning and I'm going to try and help you like that the language and fandom and like the sort of like infrastructure be it language, visuals, whatever that comes with YouTube is corny. [SPEAKER_00]: Is that kind of where you're going? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes. [SPEAKER_01]: So, I would say I'm not opposed to a YouTube or making a movie, but I would say I am coming in pure of heart because I'm not like, I'm not like a fan of these people.

[SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm like, just coming in, it's just like, oh, I'm excited for this horror movie. [SPEAKER_01]: And so, like, I didn't see the, I think it was Iron Long because it was getting really bad reviews. [SPEAKER_01]: I had never heard of Cory Barker, I came in, I fucking loved this movie just as a horror movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he might be like... [SPEAKER_01]: new, really good horror director. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I think he has a real just eye for it and like I like where his brain is at with it and because I was curious, I actually went back and I didn't watch any of their, [SPEAKER_01]: comedy videos, but I watched the like outchorn horror that he made material just because I was like curious and that was made for like 800 bucks like on you know weekends and stuff but I and you know it doesn't feel like a theater release or anything but like sure it has a really you can tell [SPEAKER_01]: grasp on like what makes a horror really work and like I thought that that was better than something I didn't see in theaters but watched recently because it's on on streaming now and thought was one of the worst fucking things I've ever seen and I think it's another YouTuber, Shelby Oaks.

[SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, yeah, that is another YouTuber. [SPEAKER_01]: Just absolutely not just god-awful, just awful [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that like I think that I'm not sure why YouTubers all gravitate towards horror. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm not sure if that's easier to sell or like something because all you need is like a good hook or tagline. [SPEAKER_01]: But I think a lot of people think they're going to have this grasp on it and they don't. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that like it seems like Curry Barker really does.

[SPEAKER_01]: Incredible, I thought [SPEAKER_01]: It was a really good rate of the escalation of horror, which is really important. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was like really unsettling. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought it was like satisfying. [SPEAKER_01]: Like there wasn't, you know, it didn't lean on like things happening just for the sake of being creepy. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like you leave and you're like, everything has to do with everything else and has an explanation. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like there's a lot of levels to it.

[SPEAKER_01]: takes its horror from like a real-life thing, but not in a corny way, like in a way that feels very smart to me. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the visuals were good. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the writing was good. [SPEAKER_01]: I thought the casting was great. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize that the friend Ian is his YouTube partner. [SPEAKER_01]: I didn't realize that until I watched Milk and Serial, [SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, I found that out after too, hi. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but I liked, I liked every, like, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: I just, I loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, I, I loved it the second time too. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the second time, I actually picked up on way more things that I feel like I understood it better, which to me is like a really good sign of, of good writing. [SPEAKER_00]: And Stephanie, I mean, I definitely think that's true and it's a shame I felt none of that. [SPEAKER_01]: But I'm I'm so I'm curious What because we haven't talked about this at all except that I know hated it. [SPEAKER_01]: What did you hate about it so much?

[SPEAKER_00]: you know I hated it because I texted you and said I saw a lady walk out in the middle of this movie and I was jealous of her. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is the opposite of seeing it twice in two days.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well, before I talk about that, I do just want to go back to one thing because, you know, I had my phase of YouTuber dabbling with my sketch group that I was in.

[SPEAKER_00]: those guys like you know Josh you directed a lot of our our sketches like Josh Wallace he went on to like make a horror film he like and and he and Luke Jensen like they're both really into horror I think that horror is particularly fun [SPEAKER_00]: One, I think that the people who are passionate about it are, are, like, fiercely passionate about it and spend a lot of time thinking about what makes one work or not work. [SPEAKER_00]: And if they are also a filmmaker or they have that interest, I think they're particularly fun puzzles to solve.

[SPEAKER_00]: How do you do this? [SPEAKER_00]: How do you play with that tension? [SPEAKER_00]: So I kind of think that's why it happens a lot that it will be too great. [SPEAKER_00]: Because it's someone who wants to play around with the form anyway. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so, I think that's what happens. [SPEAKER_00]: Now, I also think not every gifted director is a gifted writer and sometimes that's the problem that they fall into is like they're trying to write their own stuff and then also, and I think it could really be a gifted director, but you know, writing is a different skill set.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And sometimes, you don't have it. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't think I really have it. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just think it depends on the person, but okay, what I didn't like, cracks knuckles. [SPEAKER_00]: uh, no, eight. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I would say the, you know, when I like a horror movie, I feel like it's because I either had an emotional experience, so I cared about these characters, or it, [SPEAKER_00]: It showed me, it made me think about a human problem in a new way, or from a new angle, gave me typically a horror that I really like, will give me empathy for like, you know, and just in a sort of like cartoonish crazy way, but about some issue.

[SPEAKER_00]: And this, to me, how it was hitting me was like, that it's kind of playing with the notion of like, incelle-y type guy that longs for the girlfriend, but can't get her attention.

[SPEAKER_00]: But he wasn't incelle enough.

[SPEAKER_00]: indirect comparison to how shrill and awful she became. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: So it's almost like

[SPEAKER_00]: I, I just, I feel like his worst crime was that he was like too shy, but also I, I was like, I couldn't, I couldn't get my bearings on like, how older these people, they're all the enough to drink, but they're getting college acceptance. [SPEAKER_00]: I'm just feeling a little like confused about that. [SPEAKER_01]: I think they were 25 because at one point Ian says something about like your seven year late prom puzzle. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think they were all high school friends, this is a small town.

[SPEAKER_01]: I think that they're 24 or 25 and the art school thing is like a late and young adulthood decision on her part. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. [SPEAKER_01]: So that's how I was reading it, largely because of the seven, here's late promposal thing. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, oh yeah, I didn't catch that line. [SPEAKER_00]: So I think I would have actually given me tremendous relief because I was incredibly distracted by it was like, what age are these people supposed to be?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because I think that, like, especially in those years of someone's life, it shifts what my expectations of the dynamics are. [SPEAKER_00]: Sure. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So like, because I couldn't ever place it, and again, that might be user error if I missed that line. [SPEAKER_00]: But I just was like, if these are supposed to be like 18 year olds, it's like not a crime to be that shy. [SPEAKER_00]: And so his punishment feels exaggerated, right? [SPEAKER_00]: That [SPEAKER_00]: And those core issues essentially kept me on the hovering above the whole story the whole time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I was never in it with them. [SPEAKER_00]: I was always like, this is too extreme. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, it immediately started annoying me. [SPEAKER_00]: And I never could hug back in. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, so then none of it felt earned. [SPEAKER_00]: Nothing like I. [SPEAKER_00]: her becoming so awful so fast and I think it was well executed and like really well performed but really annoying to tolerate. [SPEAKER_01]: See, I think that I had a much less generous read on on him from the beginning.

[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't like him from the jump. [SPEAKER_01]: I think that like, [SPEAKER_01]: to me what this movie did so well, and how it did take a core human sort of experience, and then, you know, bring it into the horror realm, was to me the evolution of like the, the nice guy, is the malevolent loser. [SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's become sort of like, [SPEAKER_01]: a real type of guy where they are just almost so obsessed with their wallowing. [SPEAKER_01]: that they're not like good enough that it is actually like this pit of resentment that can bloom into something really ugly towards those around them, but it's ultimately all sort of their fault, where it's like instead of the idea of like bettering yourself becoming more confident or funnier or more pleasant to be around or anything like that, they think that like, especially towards women, [SPEAKER_01]: They almost think that like their devotion to a woman is enough to make them worthy of her Like it's like I love you so much [SPEAKER_01]: that should be enough and and they have this idea that like they know her better than anyone else.

[SPEAKER_01]: They see her on a deeper level but they in fact see her as a person less than the other people around them because they're idealizing her like he has this idea of her as [SPEAKER_01]: This like, his perfect woman, but he doesn't really see her or care about her, whereas then I kind of got the idea that her casually hooking up with Ian, and it not really being romantic. [SPEAKER_01]: Probably she is willing to hook up with him because he's just a sort of a normal chill guy who just sees her as a person instead of this.

[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that is the type of guy that I do find quite a, of Horan. [SPEAKER_01]: And I think that it sort of cuts that open and then dissects it throughout this movie because I would say the last moment he's sort of like, [SPEAKER_01]: In a sense of a crime is like, I will give him that, like, of course he didn't think that wish was going to work, right? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, of course his intention in that moment was not, but I bet that if someone had told him, no, the wish will work.

[SPEAKER_01]: I do think he would have done it anyways, because he is more than willing to accept the wish and everything that comes with it until it starts negatively impacting him. [SPEAKER_01]: But like there is a long period. [SPEAKER_01]: where he knows like he knows almost immediately that she is acting this way because of the wish and that it is not within her control and that like he's he's forcing that yeah and he's perfectly willing to accept it all until it starts being like a problem yeah because they have a happy relationship for like question mark amount of time yeah and he knows like he knows that [SPEAKER_00]: Um, I think what's interesting is that I, I agree with your read on that type of guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that that is interesting space to mine. [SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if I, I wonder if it's just like parts of our life that we're in that we are, are read on that character specifically is so different that like, you're in the thick of it, like it's still like I'm buried and don't care. [SPEAKER_00]: I was going to ask, like, they, I interact with them so infrequently that they become, like, you know, they just become less visible to me, which, you know, they hate, they need to be visible to every woman.

[SPEAKER_00]: But, but because one, I do think the age thing, [SPEAKER_00]: Fucked me up too bad because I agree with everything you're saying, unless the person is 18 years old. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what I mean? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the person's 18 to 20, I'm like, they actually have a few years to figure out these mistakes. [SPEAKER_00]: And then once they're like past 20, I'm like, buddy, grow up, brother. [SPEAKER_00]: But because I couldn't figure it out, and again, user error, I think, maybe, [SPEAKER_00]: But because I couldn't figure it out, it was interesting that there were not enough signifiers for me to understand or feel that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: But also, I would push back a little in only in that, I think it's okay that this movie is not necessarily interested in origin or lore of any of these people. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that's fine. [SPEAKER_00]: You can still tell an interesting story that way. [SPEAKER_00]: And I think it's probably smart for horror to not try to, [SPEAKER_00]: Here's everything about this guy's work story. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: So I get why you wouldn't do that. [SPEAKER_00]: But then so I'm left with what's on the screen.

[SPEAKER_00]: And what's on the screen is like, [SPEAKER_00]: a parent, a grandparent, someone died. [SPEAKER_00]: He's alone in the world from what I can tell. [SPEAKER_00]: His cat dies in the first five minutes of the, he seemed to have cared for this ailing grandma, you know, guard guardian of some sort. [SPEAKER_00]: And then he has their house and all their drugs.

[SPEAKER_00]: But clearly that person was sick because of all the medicine they show. [SPEAKER_00]: So that is already like horrific. [SPEAKER_00]: The cat dies in the beginning. [SPEAKER_00]: Prompted to feel bad for this character, and then he's having trouble expressing himself, and I'm like Is this an 18 year old that went through something horrible? [SPEAKER_00]: Is it a 25 I mean at any age? [SPEAKER_00]: If you show me those details, I am more likely to give a lot of grace to the behavior, unless it's, unless it is on paper, truly evil, but if it's just like, you can't quite express yourself because you're like, a dumb guy.

[SPEAKER_00]: And then I don't know that that's why the conceit of the rest of the movie, I'm like, well, his worst crime was making a wish that was stupid and annoying, and his, and I hate the, the head of stole putting a girl on a petal, I mean, it was, I, I remember that experience was a fucking nightmare, it fell as if you're listening, it's a fucking nightmare when you do this to us. [SPEAKER_00]: We don't want it, um, you know, because, [SPEAKER_00]: You are right, he shows no interest in her interiority at all.

[SPEAKER_00]: He's like, she's perfect because she has a beautiful jawline. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, can drink beer with the guys? [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I don't really know what's the issue. [SPEAKER_00]: She's the only character stuff that we get of her is like, oh, shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Is my thing recording through my scarlet or no?

[SPEAKER_00]: Hey, guys, technical issue for a moment. [SPEAKER_01]: If I didn't sound really bad, sorry, I'm going to sound better. [SPEAKER_00]: Sorry, it was only 30 minutes. [SPEAKER_00]: You'll all live, but we are, sorry. [SPEAKER_00]: We're back. [SPEAKER_00]: What was I even saying? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: I just kind of felt bad for the guy. [SPEAKER_00]: And she's a cool girl, but in the way a man would write a cool girl. [SPEAKER_00]: And no one, including the movie, is interested in what she's [SPEAKER_01]: Well, I mean, the thing is it's, it's, we just, we barely are with that character.

[SPEAKER_01]: So it's almost not even like, oh, she's under written. [SPEAKER_01]: It's just like, we're only with that character for a couple of minutes. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, because the rest of the movie is not her, which is made very clear. [SPEAKER_01]: I guess with him also, even with the cat with the grandma, whatever, it's like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's not even like, oh, he has no one. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like, he does have this core group of friends. [SPEAKER_01]: He has, and he has this girl who is his good friend.

[SPEAKER_01]: He is just so focused on having this other relationship with her. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: Which is another, it's like, when you have a guy friend and like, you can sense that it's like, they know, they know when you're not interested, but like, they can't let go of how much they want that. [SPEAKER_01]: Everything has to be weird, you know? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, or they won't let go of hope or something like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like until you're like, I am never going to date you.

[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, but it's like, I thought it was weird that he didn't tell anyone about the cat dying because he's so focused on I'm going to ask Nicky out tonight and it's like, I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought he was acting weird from the job. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I also think it was weird deeper in the movie. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, as we were getting deeper in the story, and it's like, the scene where I can't take someone eating a pet. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I know it's a thing that occasionally comes up in horror.

[SPEAKER_00]: And also, I mean, the show Peep Show did it. [SPEAKER_00]: How to storyline where he fed the dog to somebody, and I like couldn't watch past that episode. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just, I don't, that like, almost makes me throw up to the story. [SPEAKER_00]: For some reason. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, but the scene where she feeds him, his cat, um, which also, they're just like, there were inconsistencies with the passing of time that I don't mean to be pedantic about, but it was like, how long, uh, we got a montage of you guys dating for like a while.

[SPEAKER_00]: So however, how long has this dead body been? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought maybe you guys had dealt with the dead body, but now I guess not, but she feeds in the cat. [SPEAKER_00]: He throws up in front of his co-workers. [SPEAKER_00]: People are like, what's going on? [SPEAKER_00]: Are you okay? [SPEAKER_00]: And he's not telling anybody that he's in like a frightening abuse situation, which if he's if he is truly like acting like he's not understanding what's going on with the wish, [SPEAKER_00]: This would be understood as abuse what she's doing right screaming at him in the middle of the night, and I He's cat.

[SPEAKER_01]: I The first time I saw it. [SPEAKER_01]: I also had that thought and then the second time I was reading it as like It's because he knows like there's something fucked up like he It that wasn't he did something he knows he just linked it, but also at that point like he still [SPEAKER_01]: wants her and this in some capacity and he knows that like if he tells everyone this is going on they're going to be like okay because already like you know the scene in the car with Ian where he's like she's clearly going through something it looks like you're taking advantage like this is a fucked up situation and you know he doesn't even know all the all the details but people can tell something fucked up is going on but like [SPEAKER_01]: he doesn't want people to know that because he still wants to like play act that him and Nicky are like in this relationship because even just to jump ahead like after the party he's like can't you just act like Nicky like he knows it's I mean obviously like [SPEAKER_01]: He knows long before this, but the most horrifying part is the phone call when he hears the Nicki screaming and just hangs up and that the night after the party when real Nicki comes through and does like, please kill me and all he can say is like, would it really be, is it so bad being with me and she's like, I've never been with you and he just walks away.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that is definitely his most evil, obviously, evil turn. [SPEAKER_01]: And before that, after the party, like he, um, [SPEAKER_01]: God, oh yeah, he, he's like really shows how upset he is for the first time. [SPEAKER_01]: And the thing he's upset about isn't, oh my God, what have I done to this person that is making them like, do things like this, like when, yeah, she tries to kill herself the half a second, the real Nikki comes through. [SPEAKER_01]: He is, he is literally still self-pidying.

[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, is this even real? [SPEAKER_01]: He's like, do you even, does it, doesn't it even actually love me? [SPEAKER_01]: Like, [SPEAKER_01]: What upset him isn't what he's done to this person that he's like always claimed to care about? [SPEAKER_01]: What upset him is like, you know, no, actually love me. [SPEAKER_01]: This isn't real. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, to me, that's part of the malevolent loser is this like, yeah, it's a real, it's very in conversation with like weaponized incompetence because it's like, it's this fiend cluelessness.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like this act of like cluelessness. [SPEAKER_01]: Where you weaponize that to like actually he don't think you're doing anything bad or evil, but you are just like [SPEAKER_01]: You are causing harm, but you're like, what? [SPEAKER_01]: Me, no. [SPEAKER_00]: I think you're right. [SPEAKER_00]: And as you're saying this, it does reframe a lot in the movie for me. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I intentionally didn't look at any other reviews, because I didn't want any other thoughts coming in.

[SPEAKER_00]: But like, that is true. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess I needed [SPEAKER_00]: And I may be as a representative of the people who like, just need a little more to hook into horror. [SPEAKER_00]: Hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: I needed more indications that he was like that, um, [SPEAKER_00]: earlier. [SPEAKER_00]: Like I needed more I needed less his life is very sad and more like the way he thinks is bad. [SPEAKER_00]: He's selfish and and doesn't and you know I think that would be a tough it's like a hard needle to thread and perhaps you know, perhaps a man will never be able to write that.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's maybe what it is, but I did like, because then if I had like 15% more [SPEAKER_00]: like in cell, loser, behavior before everything kicks off or like even just like expression of the ideology or the way he sees the world. [SPEAKER_00]: If I just had like 15% more of that, then everything else would feel way more earned and I would be in the story a little more. [SPEAKER_01]: Right, I guess I also didn't feel so much like to me. [SPEAKER_01]: He wasn't necessarily in cell vibes because I don't feel like he was like, oh no, woman.

[SPEAKER_01]: Liked me, blah, blah, blah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's more just like he was just obsessed with this one girl and he's just like, because yeah, it's Sarah liked him. [SPEAKER_01]: She's a pretty, but he's like idealized this one other girl. [SPEAKER_01]: So it's like he can't [SPEAKER_01]: Look at like, oh no, some girls like me for some reason. [SPEAKER_01]: He's just so obsessed with his like self-pity and like Feeling like a martyr because he likes this girl and I don't know. [SPEAKER_01]: I just didn't like him from the beginning I don't know if it's because like I thought it was a good choice that his hair was always greasy It really adds this element of just kind of like you and his face is just always kind of like

[SPEAKER_01]: which is kind of like, got get over it. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, especially in contrast to Ian who it's like, it's not like this perfect, amazing guy, but it's like, right. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, he just at least seems sure of himself in a way that [SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's where he's just like, I don't know if Nicky loves me and it's like, how about you're just like, be normal? [SPEAKER_01]: You know, what did you just normal? [SPEAKER_00]: You know, I just think I have grief goggles on a lot.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because I still was thinking like, in those beginning scenes, I'm thinking back to like, what was I thinking during that? [SPEAKER_00]: And all I was thinking was like, oh, that like, oh, is this guy like grieving this relative? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: And so that's why he's like,

[SPEAKER_00]: being extremely selfish or like seeking comfort in something that doesn't exit or like isn't there for him. [SPEAKER_00]: Or you know, yeah, I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: And you know, I guess the dead relative needed to be there. [SPEAKER_00]: I guess it didn't, it didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: It's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: This, this really does feel genuinely listener. [SPEAKER_00]: I must have you know for the 20th time. [SPEAKER_00]: I really feel like this is user error on my part because I think I ultimately was reading the whole movie or the whole like introduction of these characters wrong.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like because if I think back, I'm not other than living in the house and seeing the drugs, I guess I, there was nothing communicated specifically about his relationship to that person. [SPEAKER_00]: But seeing those things, I was like, [SPEAKER_01]: I think, you know, I think that my therapist about baby were raised the moment he was on the phone with Nikki and didn't mention the cat.

[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, just because I found that to be such odd behavior that like I feel like from that moment, I was like, there's something weird with this guy. [SPEAKER_01]: Like he's, yeah, there's something very strange going on here. [SPEAKER_00]: I will say also that this movie continued to have the issue that I tend to have, which is like, in a horror movie, it's just, it feels really, really hard to thread the needle between like communicating like you're in an after school special and talking like how friends talk to each other.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because it was like, any scene where anyone had to say anything [SPEAKER_00]: I got the letter from the college like all that stuff was like this is not how people [SPEAKER_00]: and I get, I get why those things move forward. [SPEAKER_00]: You know what? [SPEAKER_00]: This actually made me appreciate even more was forbidden fruits. [SPEAKER_00]: Okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Everyone, I think back to forbidden fruits and like of all the horror movies we watched so far like that is the one where like they talked like people I would recognize it was heightened but it was like it felt real.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like it felt like how girls I know talk. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, which is interesting because I feel like that was a campy movie, and this is not a campy movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I know what you mean about like the college acceptance letters and stuff like that. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: I felt like in general, I thought it was pretty realistic how sort of like messy this friend group was. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, like where it's like, oh yeah, you know, they were hooking up and then [SPEAKER_01]: being pretty unfairly like, yeah, I don't know.

[SPEAKER_01]: She's going through it, but it's really not fair to you. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, kind of shit. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, it felt realistic to me in that way, where they're like, they're 24, 25. [SPEAKER_01]: They've been friends since high school. [SPEAKER_01]: They're a little toxic, a little messy. [SPEAKER_01]: Probably like, [SPEAKER_01]: It's not the healthiest thing for your core friend. [SPEAKER_01]: You're only friends to be the people you're friends with. [SPEAKER_00]: When I call you, you work at a music store with who's what I was thinking.

[SPEAKER_01]: Which also the most unrealistic part was that many employees being in like a small-time music store. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought that too. [SPEAKER_00]: I was like, I have never been in a music store where it wasn't like an old guy with a low ponytail and a young guy with a low ponytail. [UNKNOWN]: I'm like, how old is he? [UNKNOWN]: And you're freaked out. [SPEAKER_01]: They're paying all these people every day.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, truly. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Frankly, never been in a music store where one woman worked, let alone two. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't like those shirts. [SPEAKER_00]: I did do what they were made of a good material. [SPEAKER_01]: It was really like a waffle they were cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and also like a music store. [SPEAKER_00]: I've never seen a music store where there's a uniform. [SPEAKER_00]: Never seen that before. [SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: Famously kind of a You know, crusty band t-shirt sort of a cool.

[SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the uniform plus it It's a bit of a cool vintage vibe to the whole music store. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh, I'm in of it But Seems like a really chill job as he was like. [SPEAKER_01]: He didn't have to do much. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, mostly got to hang out with their friends [SPEAKER_00]: But, no, I'm a high school boyfriend worked at a music store like that and I will say it seemed like a chill job.

[SPEAKER_00]: No. [SPEAKER_00]: It seemed like he'd never had to do anything ever.

[SPEAKER_01]: Did you? [SPEAKER_01]: What did you think of like the scares?

[SPEAKER_00]: I...

[SPEAKER_00]: I'm probably the wrong person to evaluate, but I am here on this podcast doing this, but I think that they were effective in being scary, but because again, because my feeling watching the movie was that none of the character stuff was earned, I wasn't scared because I [SPEAKER_00]: What's kind of my attitude and so the loudness of the scares really was annoying me. [SPEAKER_00]: I literally had my fingers in my ears for one hour of this movie. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I just left my fingers in my ears because I was like, I don't want it.

[SPEAKER_00]: But I did think they were scary. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, you know, indeed, Navarrete. [SPEAKER_00]: I think is how she says her name. [SPEAKER_00]: really good performance. [SPEAKER_00]: She was like, excellent. [SPEAKER_00]: Incredible. [SPEAKER_01]: Like, she was doing amazing things with her face and body. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and the way that she would have to express for like half a second with her eyes that she's a prisoner and her body, but her body was moving out of her control.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I did find it amazing that her skills and I wish her a very long and fruitful career. [SPEAKER_00]: I truly wish that for everyone in the movie and involved. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, I thought, [SPEAKER_00]: really well done. [SPEAKER_00]: Really scary scares. [SPEAKER_00]: Some felt a little obvious, you know, the scene where she ends up killing that girl was like, yeah, no shit. [SPEAKER_00]: You're showing the most of the screen is empty window. [SPEAKER_00]: So, but that is like a, that seemed like you get the tension.

[SPEAKER_01]: I did go. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, you know, did I think she was going to do that? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: That's something. [SPEAKER_01]: It's like you know something's going to happen. [SPEAKER_01]: And then that's just so like a broth and like violent. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's the first like kill. [SPEAKER_01]: It's a real escalation. [SPEAKER_00]: It's an extreme escalation and, you know, another thing I thought was cool about indie never-edges performance is that she was willing to be incredibly gross, yeah, and [SPEAKER_00]: I think that is, I think it's cool when an actor, when an actress, I think this is specifically something I think about actresses, like when they're willing to kind of like, there's no vanity about it, they are just being really gross, like bull and nasty.

[SPEAKER_00]: I think it's cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it's, I think it's really cool to watch. [SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she was able to do like, [SPEAKER_01]: She is a very elastic face which you like kind of wouldn't guess from how sort of like pretty and delicate her features are, but There were so many scenes where she was doing things with her face that like We're really scary because they were really uncanny Like when she's in the corner crying [SPEAKER_01]: Um, and you're just kind, it's all sort of in shadow, but she's she's just sobbing in the corner.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like her face looks almost in human. [SPEAKER_01]: Uh, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: It's really scary. [SPEAKER_01]: Um, the frown at the party, which they would get a big laugh, but also like on like, yeah, it was, and then yeah, I mean, [SPEAKER_01]: the the quite horrifying scene where she has been waiting for him all day and is covered in every bodily fluid and solid known to man. [SPEAKER_01]: But the squelching sound was tough. [SPEAKER_00]: Tough stuff. [SPEAKER_00]: I really did not enjoy that.

[SPEAKER_01]: They really went for a squelch. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: All that stuff that I don't personally enjoy, but I was thinking, [SPEAKER_00]: I thought, I felt myself thinking while watching, like, oh, this director is like very much going for a lot of stuff with his first feature. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, yeah, he's taking solid swings and I think landing them. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I just don't like it. [SPEAKER_00]: Just don't like when they land on me. [SPEAKER_01]: No, thank you.

[SPEAKER_01]: This is not an experience I want. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like the second watch, the biggest thing I was able to pick up on way more because like, you know, I was less focused on like, what's coming? [SPEAKER_00]: Where's this going? [SPEAKER_01]: Was, um, [SPEAKER_01]: because it is a mystery what this sort of entity is, what the function is behind the wish. [SPEAKER_01]: But the second watch I was picking up so much more on all of the mimicry. [SPEAKER_01]: And of whatever this entity is, how during that first conversation like at the car, whatever this thing is in Nikki's body, really just seems to not actually [SPEAKER_01]: it's like a little full born who doesn't know how to walk yet and is like trying to find it's footing with the like figuring out how a person talks with the like I just lost my cat.

[SPEAKER_01]: Oh no you just lost your cat. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh sorry. [SPEAKER_01]: Oh oh oh yeah sorry and then later it's interesting when she has vomited and should herself impester herself in everything and she's like [SPEAKER_01]: I ate a bug. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I had a stomach bug. [SPEAKER_01]: Like there's, yeah, there's so much that's not quite right, and then in the end, then this entity seems to reach this point of frustration when she's like, I can't be nicky, I can't be nicky, and then, you know, it's like, I can be nicky, you know, [SPEAKER_00]: Right.

[SPEAKER_00]: There. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Right. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that is really that. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, yeah, that is really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: I also think that like, [SPEAKER_00]: You know, as you were talking about this, I was wondering if there will be more movies in this universe. [SPEAKER_00]: I feel like almost certainly, yes, due to the success of this movie. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there's so many things that could be done with it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think it would be really cool. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I think something that would have made me like this movie more is if I got more lore on the weird thing.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, because I like, you know, I, you know, as much as I try not to be, I'm kind of can enjoy some nerdy things and a deep lore on a spooky toy. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I need to write up my own. [SPEAKER_01]: I love lore. [SPEAKER_01]: That's one of my favorite things about horror movies. [SPEAKER_01]: So like, I was moving. [SPEAKER_01]: I was like, oh, I kind of wish there was more lore, but then I was like, you know what? [SPEAKER_01]: That's like, [SPEAKER_01]: not what this movie was though because part of it is like, he knows he made a wish, but it's like, it's not how would he know the mechanics of it without it being like shoehorned in, but I do hope that they do something from the other side where we do learn more about the lore because that is really interesting and during the Q&A, from the perspective of the guy who [SPEAKER_01]: Where is, I mean, it was kind of confirmed during the Q&A because I was like, okay, is this basically did they take the concept of the sunken place from get out?

[SPEAKER_01]: And during the Q&A, they kind of confirm to that. [SPEAKER_01]: Where are they literally, we're like, yeah, she's basically in the sunken place and is like a passenger, I can see everything that's happening, which is also why, at the end, it's so horrifying. [SPEAKER_01]: She knows everything, her body has done. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: But, uh, he curry barker also kind of said that he doesn't necessarily think that, like, the, the vehicle through which you make a wish is has to be cursed or like that, and lately has to be cursed.

[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe it was the other guy who said it. [SPEAKER_01]: One of them said it, but it's, it's the wish itself that he makes that, like, that could never not be cursed because you're forcing a person to [SPEAKER_01]: be and do something right where it's like to feel something. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where's like the billion dollars one like might have worked out. [SPEAKER_01]: But right to fundamentally alter another human being and put them under, you know, the control of not them to take them away from themselves.

[SPEAKER_01]: How could that ever end well? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_00]: Did he talk at all about how it was the idea was from this monkey paw Simpson's episode? [SPEAKER_01]: No, but that's funny. [SPEAKER_00]: That is that like because I mean the story is like a hundreds of years old old old story But that like yeah, but I think it's funny that I think it's funny that they're like every generation sort of like Takes it one more step removed [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the monkey pods, there's just kind of endless possibilities of things you can do with that, and yeah, I did like the scene where he goes back into the crystal shot because that was genuinely creepy for a moment.

[SPEAKER_01]: Like, yeah, when he's like, what the fuck is a one which will owe you're like, and then, you know, it's a joke or whatever, but I, when the my first viewing, something that I found to be a weird reaction was there were two separate couples coming out of the theater who were [SPEAKER_01]: annoyed at how often people were laughing and oh I was I had only noticed people laughing at the lines that were clearly jokes and laugh lines. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And it's like I do think people are like taking it too far when like I've seen a couple of people only to like be like It's essentially a dark comedy and it's like no, it's not.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's a pretty disturbing dark movie. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that just has some jokes in it as

[SPEAKER_01]: life as if also it's like people are laughing couldn't they just let it be a horror movie and it's like these were purposely jokes this guy comes from like a comedy video background but also it's like as if horror and comedy aren't two sides of the same coin where it's like yeah a situation escalating it to absurd degrees and in one situation the absurd [SPEAKER_01]: We're firing, but it's like, I don't know, I don't think the fact. [SPEAKER_01]: I just thought it was a weird thing to be annoyed by when it's like, okay, but the things people were laughing at were like, We were lead.

[SPEAKER_00]: So. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's so funny. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, there were like 10 people in my theater, so there was really one different person. [SPEAKER_00]: Both times I saw him by the end. [SPEAKER_00]: Lee, Lee, so fucking weird. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I just, I think it's, you know, at horror movies are typically like about something, and this one is about the idea of autonomy and consent. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, these, [SPEAKER_01]: These loser guys who think they're not doing anything bad, but they also, they also kind of know they can't tell anyone.

[SPEAKER_01]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: If he told anyone about like the wish earlier, they would be like, oh, so you're raping her. [SPEAKER_01]: You are raping her and keeping her as a sex slave and a prisoner essentially. [SPEAKER_01]: And you're the one who put her in the prison. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's like I did find the sex scene the most disturbing maybe I yeah I think it was kind of supposed to be like yeah, I mean aside from the Please kill me But you know the whole movie does like certainly the main character feels a quite self-conscious [SPEAKER_00]: Because there's a one part part when they first kiss where he's like, you made me feel like I was doing something bad or something you didn't want.

[SPEAKER_00]: I can't remember how he phrased it. [SPEAKER_00]: But I remember noting that that was how he said it. [SPEAKER_00]: That it was like, you made me feel like I was doing something you didn't want. [SPEAKER_00]: And then she's just like not participating in the sex scene really. [SPEAKER_00]: She's just sort of present. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah and then the character later in the movie saying like yeah that this is a bad look like talking about the optics of the relationship. [SPEAKER_00]: It just seemed like it had all that stuff on its mind.

[SPEAKER_00]: And I wish it worked better for me because I'd like [SPEAKER_00]: Exploring, like, I like media that explores that like challenging stuff, but I'm glad it worked for, you know, 99% of the people who saw it. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's just like the way that [SPEAKER_01]: Because, of course, she's acting abusive and horrible and crazy, but it's like, that's not Nikki, that's like a demon, a demon that he was perfectly content to act like was Nikki, until it didn't benefit him anymore. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, like it's he's just so selfish and he just wants what he wants and Despite all his like oh, I'm just so shy.

[SPEAKER_01]: I'm not good enough. [SPEAKER_01]: I'm blah, blah, blah. [SPEAKER_01]: He's still thinks he's entitled to these things [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and like, yeah, definitely as you're saying it, I still, I do see it. [SPEAKER_00]: I think I am interested, and I don't know if I've seen anything really explore it, but I am interested in like the tension between people, men who are just shy versus this type of thing. [SPEAKER_00]: like I do think there is an interesting tension there to explore because I don't think it's a crime to be shy and I think about those, I don't know, I just think there's something interesting there between men who are just shy and don't know how to express this type of stuff because I think there are just as many women who are shy in that way but it is culturally more acceptable for women to be that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: Um, and I don't know. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would, I would be interested in something that exploit that more deeply. [SPEAKER_00]: But that's not what this movie did. [SPEAKER_00]: Did you know that he's doing Texas chainsaw? [SPEAKER_00]: I think is a nice thing. [SPEAKER_00]: So I, the boys got a promising future. [SPEAKER_01]: He does, and then apparently his next tour movie's already been shot. [SPEAKER_01]: And yeah, I heard that. [SPEAKER_01]: It's him and the comedy partner, right?

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And who I think his name is Cooper Tomlinson, maybe. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: And then it's like, uh, [SPEAKER_01]: I forget who, but it's like two more famous people and like supporting roles. [SPEAKER_00]: Oh yeah, it's Aaron Paul and someone else. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that'll be cool. [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm, you know, I don't have much more to say about this movie, but I, I do just again want to say that I really am looking forward to his career and I think it's cool.

[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, it reminds me of like what excites me so much about Matt Johnson kind of side of just he is a hot man. [SPEAKER_00]: But he, [SPEAKER_00]: He did the same, you know, he did the same or similar like where I just think it's so cool when people make their own stuff and I'm always going to respect that a little more than I think having the traditional pathway in not that there's anything wrong with like graduating from USC film school or whatever and [SPEAKER_00]: you know, meeting a producer's kid and then getting a job that way.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's fine, too. [SPEAKER_00]: But I, I really do think it's cool that he found this side door. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and that was just as much work. [SPEAKER_01]: This was also a really low budget movie. [SPEAKER_01]: Like I knew it was between 700 K and a million and that's great. [SPEAKER_01]: During the Q&A, he was saying, um, [SPEAKER_01]: how like like the car that they did the the head smash seen in that was like a rental car and like somehow the plastic they were supposed to put plastic under the seats and that got forgotten somehow so there was fake blood all over the car and um the guy who played Ian was a producer on it and he would but he was doing like all sorts of just like [SPEAKER_01]: like he was like on his hands and he's like cleaning the blood out of the car so they could return to the rental place and I love that I know and it's like interesting because it's like I was so impressed by undertone being so low budget but I'm like this was that much higher budget and [SPEAKER_01]: I'm way more impressed by this.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, an undertone really didn't show you anything. [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this definitely showed you stuff. [SPEAKER_01]: This one feels like a real, I would believe it was such a higher budget. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_01]: I would just, I think he's really talented. [SPEAKER_01]: Also, I feel like it's sort of promising for Texas chainsaw massacre. [SPEAKER_01]: that just the shot of, like, Sarah, you know, sort of, split out or something that does always get me that I kind of think is like, [SPEAKER_01]: You know, grotesque in a way that I do enjoy in horror is a regular house being sort of slowly but surely turned into like a house of horrors where you look at it from the beginning to the end and it's just like a normal house, it's just been turned into this like [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, we're like by those last scenes, I visually I thought, we're cool, um, where, you know, I'm setting.

[SPEAKER_01]: If you're setting, um, I mean also like honestly, I get that he wanted to try things, but like the good and noble thing of him to do would have been to kill himself much quicker. [SPEAKER_01]: you know, like that that when he learned that that was what would end this yeah that that is the only he had a moral obligation to kill himself. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, stages of grief, it takes you a while to get there. [SPEAKER_01]: Yes, that's true, but like when he heard, yeah, the Niki screams and just hung up and went along his, his merry way.

[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, yeah. [SPEAKER_01]: you are happy to ignore suffering as long as it benefits you, which that's actually I think that's another aspect aside from just the malevolent loser archetype, I think one of the scariest things about men in general is how much [SPEAKER_01]: sometimes you're faced with the fact that if given the chance, most of them, a lot of them, I'll scale back to a lot of them, which do many horrific things, and some of a lot of them, the only thing stopping them is like, [SPEAKER_01]: the chances just not presented to them, but like I think more atrocities are crimes of like opportunity than we would like to think.

[SPEAKER_00]: Well yeah I mean listen I I'm well aware of that due to my day job in true crime. [SPEAKER_00]: What's linked to hours of investigators talk about this? [SPEAKER_00]: That is very true that like a lot of the, a lot of the, I mean why we don't need to go into it, a lot of the coreable crimes or crimes of opportunity that have been presented and yeah, it's scary. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I mean, the fact that for Nicky, like another level of like this absolutely like horrifying hell that she's found herself in is like her having to process that somebody she trusted and cared about is the one doing this to her way I would love to have [SPEAKER_00]: been able to experience that more in the movie, yeah, like I get that there's I don't really see where there's room to have, but I would have liked it.

[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, it's like in a way it's like what you can imagine is like, [SPEAKER_01]: almost more horrifying than like a phage. [SPEAKER_01]: I don't know but um yeah I don't know and I loved all the I loved all the shots of like her just completely in shadow and all you can see is a glare on her eyeball very scary and very in line with the like who is this what is this? [SPEAKER_00]: of it all. [SPEAKER_00]: A smart way to make someone who is beautiful, and so therefore looks approachable, looks like, you know, you have feel positive feelings when you're looking at someone so beautiful.

[SPEAKER_00]: It's a good, it's like a smart way to make that person scary. [SPEAKER_00]: Mm-hmm. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, because otherwise it's like kind of hard. [SPEAKER_00]: She looks nice. [SPEAKER_01]: It's so soft. [SPEAKER_01]: It's very scary. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I loved this movie. [SPEAKER_01]: I think he is a very exciting new voice and horror as they say. [SPEAKER_00]: I do think he probably is and I am happy for him. [SPEAKER_00]: And I can't wait to see the one that he's in because I also find him very charismatic and like [SPEAKER_00]: And very striking, look, yeah, blonde eyebrows on a guy is so funny every time.

[SPEAKER_00]: Sorry to the blonde eyebrows guys out there. [SPEAKER_01]: The end was I thought it stuck the landing and how just like bleak the ending was. [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, I mean it is, you know, by the ending, it's like, [SPEAKER_00]: I was asking myself, what do I want to happen? [SPEAKER_00]: I don't really know. [SPEAKER_00]: Like, she is now committed multiple murders. [SPEAKER_00]: Yes. [SPEAKER_00]: So she's kind of fucked either way. [SPEAKER_00]: That's the thing. [SPEAKER_01]: And she's freed, but it's like, she probably wishes she was dead because it's now where she's going to just go to jail forever for the murder of her best friends.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so I, you know, I don't know, it was a good ending. [SPEAKER_00]: I thought it was bleak and stuck the landing, and I think ultimately, maybe the entire movie was just too subtle for me, someone who is stupid. [SPEAKER_01]: I also, it sounds like you were just having an unpleasant time, the whole time, and so maybe you were distracted by that.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, you know, again, I just do think it's stupid for me to try to evaluate like a movie, a horror movie, knowing I don't like, but I have liked enough of them that we've watched. [SPEAKER_01]: I feel like is this the first one that you have like hated that we've covered? [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's outside of maybe like ready or not, which I just didn't do. [SPEAKER_01]: Right. [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, and I would almost call that more of like a thriller than like a horror where this is like a true horror.

[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, but yeah, this one I actively hated, I would have given it half a star on letterbox, but I didn't. [SPEAKER_00]: because I didn't want to bring his average down because I can't I can't believe this is all user error. [SPEAKER_00]: I think that it's good for people who it's good for, which seems to be everybody who saw it out. [SPEAKER_00]: Because I've not talked to one person who was in line with me at all. [SPEAKER_00]: Now Alex would have hated it, but he didn't go with me.

[SPEAKER_00]: Because he knew that about himself. [SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay. [SPEAKER_00]: Well, anything else? [SPEAKER_00]: Um, any, any more shit you got to get off before. [SPEAKER_01]: No, I just loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it, loved it. [SPEAKER_01]: I would, I would see it. [SPEAKER_01]: I would see it again. [SPEAKER_00]: I would see it again. [SPEAKER_00]: I would see it again. [SPEAKER_00]: I don't understand, I don't understand, I'm wanting to see it again, but, but bless bless to you.

[SPEAKER_00]: So next week, I believe we're doing I love boosters, yeah, and I can't wait, yeah, now that'll be fun. [SPEAKER_00]: So, we much more my shit. [SPEAKER_01]: We will see you then. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye.

[SPEAKER_01]: that was our episode on obsession. [SPEAKER_01]: If you pushed through my bad audio in the beginning, thank you, and I hope you were happy with that decision. [SPEAKER_01]: Formal apology to Monica for making her watch this [SPEAKER_01]: It's so much, but I personally, again, cannot recommend it enough. [SPEAKER_01]: You can follow us on Instagram, on YouTube, on TikTok. [SPEAKER_01]: You can rate and review on Apple podcasts. [SPEAKER_01]: And most of all, you can directly tell a friend you like this podcast and even text a link so that perhaps we may be in their ears as well, so thank you so much for listening.

[SPEAKER_01]: We will be back next week with I love boosters and we will see you then. [SPEAKER_01]: Bye!

[SPEAKER_00]: Median literature was created and produced by Monica Scott and Emily Fay. [SPEAKER_00]: Our theme music was composed by Christian Larson, and technical help is from Alex Luchin. [SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for listening and we will see you at the movies.

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